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George
Murdock

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

Its like pottery because if you aren't careful your pot can collapse and go supernova.

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Old Post 11-14-2001 02:14 AM
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Shrike
BWO Team Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

quote:
Originally posted by Turnsky
errr... no red giants are when stars roughly the size of earth's run out of fissionable materials and start to burn out slowly.

Supernovas happen when a really big star's materials react all at once and explode.

Neutron stars happen when a star explodes and then all the widely distributed material from that explosing starts going in again and forms a rather dense object with a very high gravitational force, black holes happen when a neutron star collapses even further in on itself.

Not quite.

Red Giant stars are stars that have moved off the main sequence (which is Hydrogen burning) and begin burning Helium (this is where our Sun would stop, after Helium burning, blowing off the outer layers and forming a white dwarf made up of Carbon, Oxygen and a few other elements) and if the star is massive enough, heavier elements such as Carbon, Oxygen, Neon, etc, right up so Silicon. There's some theorized numbers, and as a little FYI, Silicon -> Iron burning for a 1 solar mass core takes something like half a day but I'll leave that.

Also, I'm not sure how many people know, but a star is in equilibrium between inward pressure (gravity) and outward pressure. (radiation) So if you get less radiation, the core of the star collapses until the pressure is high enough for the next reaction to begin. You may have heard of a 'Helium Flash', that is when Helium burning begins, and this causes a re-equilibration.

So our presupernova star is basically like a giant plasma onion, with a core made of Silicon and concentric shells of progressively lighter elements. Now, each fusion reaction has a threshold pressure-temperature regime, and every time a reaction starts, you get more energy to stave off the collapse of the star, but at ever higher P-T. Now, the thing is, the binding energy of Iron is higher than the energy released from the reaction of 2Si - > Fe. So basically you star Iron burning, and the energy keeping the core of the star from collapsing vanishes. Bang, collapse.

Over about 1/4 of a second or so, the core is in free-fall as it compresses to nucleonic density, and since nucleonic matter is nearly incompressible, it acts like a very stiff spring. This is called core rebound, and is why supernova spew all their outer layers (which could be tens of solar masses) into space. I'm not sure about this, but I believe that this collapse converts gravitational energy to EM energy, which helps power the supernova. The core can be left as a neutron star (if it's over the Chandresekhar limit of ~1.4 solar masses) or collapse unstoppably to a black hole if it's over about 2.5 solar masses or so.

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Old Post 11-14-2001 03:24 AM
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Turnsky
Murdock

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 369

I Stand Corrected Shrike.
Well i did say "i'll try" Didn't i?

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Old Post 11-14-2001 04:51 AM
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Shrike
BWO Team Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

quote:
Originally posted by Turnsky
I Stand Corrected Shrike.
Well i did say "i'll try" Didn't i?

Yeah, I kinda corrected the hell out of that didn't I? Oh well, better to get as much info out there as possible.

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Old Post 11-14-2001 06:27 AM
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sandwich
United Space

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:
Originally posted by George
Its like pottery because if you aren't careful your pot can collapse and go supernova.


Not my pot - I only use the highest quality pot... oops. j/k

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Old Post 11-15-2001 02:25 AM
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Shrike
BWO Team Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

quote:
Originally posted by sandwich
Not my pot - I only use the highest quality pot... oops. j/k
BC pot?

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Old Post 11-15-2001 10:05 PM
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sandwich
United Space

Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:
Originally posted by Shrike
BC pot?


BC? I don't get the reference...

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Old Post 11-16-2001 07:21 PM
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Cepheid
Murdock

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

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Last edited by Cepheid on 11-18-2001 at 10:07 PM

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Old Post 11-18-2001 09:59 PM
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Cepheid
Murdock

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

quote:
Originally posted by Shrike
Not quite.

The core can be left as a neutron star (if it's over the Chandresekhar limit of ~1.4 solar masses) or collapse unstoppably to a black hole if it's over about 2.5 solar masses or so.



And, if the neutron star is set in rotation, which it often is, you get a pulsar.

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"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals.
Then something happened that unleashed the power of our imagination.
We learned to talk......."

-Pink Floyd, The Division Bell

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Old Post 11-18-2001 10:06 PM
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Cepheid
Murdock

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

Also, to add something about black holes, they aren't totally black. They actually glow in gamma radiation because of photons formed from the quantum flux on the outer edge of the event horizon. They gradually lose mass through this "bleeding" until the evaporate in a flash of gamma rays. (I love this stuff.)

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~Cepheid~

"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals.
Then something happened that unleashed the power of our imagination.
We learned to talk......."

-Pink Floyd, The Division Bell

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Old Post 11-18-2001 10:12 PM
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Zeronet
Hannibal

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

They do "look" black though.

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Old Post 11-19-2001 08:48 AM
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Shrike
BWO Team Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

quote:
Originally posted by sandwich
BC? I don't get the reference...
British Columbia, where I live. Where the best pot in North America comes from.

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WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR COMPUTERS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUM WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

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Old Post 11-19-2001 09:30 AM
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Zeronet
Hannibal

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

Be cool for a campaign if i black hole existed in Capella, more likey it will be a location of lots of subspace nodes leading to many places.

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Old Post 11-19-2001 08:04 PM
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George
Murdock

Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

The thing about a black hole, its color, is that its black.
And the thing about space, your basic space color, is that its black.
So how are you sposed to see them?
-Holly, Red Dwarf

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Old Post 11-20-2001 02:47 AM
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Shrike
BWO Team Member

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

Because black holes radiate energy slightly, especially if they have an associated accretion disk.

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Old Post 11-20-2001 02:51 AM
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Cepheid
Murdock

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

Astronomers usually look for X-rays emitted by the friction within the disk of debris surrounding it.

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~Cepheid~

"For millions of years, mankind lived just like the animals.
Then something happened that unleashed the power of our imagination.
We learned to talk......."

-Pink Floyd, The Division Bell

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Old Post 11-20-2001 02:53 AM
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