VWBB (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/index.php)
- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- Victory Vs Sharlin (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=4858)

Oh, the show is great, and I'm not saying that the Whitestar is a bad ship, not at all, it's a great ship, and I'm a huge fan of the design. It's just that you must accept that it's not the most powerful or the best ship in the Universe. Of course it's an excellent ship for it's size. The Omega is a lot bigger, and I think the Whitestar is a better ship. That does however not mean that it will automatically win in a one on one fight against an Omega. We've seen in the show that there are Omega's being destroyed by a whitestar group, but we've also seen that whitestars are destroyed by Omega's (and there were more whitestars than Omega's).

Lets face it if the Whitestar captain is wice enough to stay out of the firing arc of the main particle beams a whitestar could disable or destroy an Omega the AA pulse cannons propably aren't even going to make a dent to a WS the most serious threat is the particle beams and the primary large pulse cannons.

__________________
"Life is hell ,no one hasn't survived it yet"

"Booze booze booze what else does a decent Finnish man require"

I agree with that, but the Whitestar is a fast manouverable ship, it needs a lot of space to be at its best, so it will be difficult to stay out of those arcs, especially since the omega has 6 particle beams..

Also, in 'No Surrender, No Retreat' the Whitestars were trying their damndest to disable the hostile Omega Destroyers without destroying them. This combined with trying to avoid the Omega's main firing arcs would at least slow them down.

The main weapons on the Omega according to AoG are:
Alpha model: 2 Forward Heavy Laser Cannon
2 Forward Heavy Pulse Cannon
2 Aft Heavy Laser Cannon
12 Phalanx Pod Standard Particle Beams

Beta model: 4 Forward Heavy Pulse Cannon
4 Aft Medium Pulse Cannon
12 Phalanx Pod Standard Particle Beams

I still don't agree from that quote that AoG is a canon source, only that the creators/writers of B5 Wars consider it canonical and in addition that it is very well researched and endorsed by JMS and WB.

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

"What I am saying, in this roundabout way is that if you want the Real Deal, if you want accuracy, canonical authority and the best of the best when its comes to Babylon 5 licensing and gaming....you've come to the right place.

Enjoy

J. Michael Straczynski
Creator/Writer/Executive Producer"

did you miss that last paragraph, and the name of the person who wrote the whole foreword, Triggy?

Omega has 4 aft firing Particle Lasers, not 2 ..

quote:

---

"What I am saying, in this roundabout way is that if you want the Real Deal, if you want accuracy, canonical authority and the best of the best when its comes to Babylon 5 licensing and gaming....you've come to the right place.

Enjoy

J. Michael Straczynski
Creator/Writer/Executive Producer"

did you miss that last paragraph, and the name of the person who wrote the whole foreword, Triggy?

---

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

As i said AoG is canon to the point where it's contradicted by the show.When filling in gaps in information about ships and that sort of stuff its canon.

The Omega's particle beams arc's only cover the rear and the forward arcs,the sides and different angles from top are out of reach of the particle beams.

__________________
"Life is hell ,no one hasn't survived it yet"

"Booze booze booze what else does a decent Finnish man require"

On the topic of the thread (which is refusing to die), in my opinion:
Could a Victory take out a Sharlin? yes
Could a Sharlin take out a Victory? yes
Could a Warlock take out either a Victory or a Sharlin? If it's Ivanova's Warlock-yes, otherwise-no idea. It depends on who desighns the mission.

As for the Whitestar, I never said it was THE super-ship (although the argument can be made), I merely think it could do rather well against an Omega. If for no other reason than Rangers are elite, most Earthforce personel-are not. Yes folks it all comes down to training and ingenuity, not who has the best toys. Remember what happened to the Black Star?

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

Kabooooom... he he

quote:

---

Originally posted by FlakBait
Yes folks it all comes down to training and ingenuity, not who has the best toys. Remember what happened to the Black Star?

---

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Sorry, I missed the forward comment, but it's interesting that the show is still more canon than the game. I guess that's life.

In regard to the Omega armament issue, sorry, I forgot the Gamma (Command) Omega:
4 Forward Heavy Laser/Pulse Arrays
2 Aft Heavy Laser/Pulse Arrays
12 Phalanx Pod Standard Particle Beams

Each heavy laser/pulse array consists of a single weapon mount with a single heavy laser cannon and heavy pulse cannon. Only one weapon of the two can fire at a time from any given weapon mount.

And yes, the game does not cover everything from the show (the four rear laser cannon mounts). I have to say the most important reason for this is that who wants a ship with more rear firepower than forward firepower? You would just end up pointing the rear end of the ship at your enemies the whole time.

My opinion of a balanced Omega would be along the lines of two heavy laser/pulse arrays on the front of the ship (not four like the game) and four medium (Nova strength) laser/pulse arrays on the aft of the ship.

That's my two cents anyway

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

While we're on the "off-topic" subject of Omegas, I was wondering what the standard armament for one of those destroyers was going to be in the MOD. I know in FRED2 that you can specify what kinds of weapons a single turret will mount (i.e. the Orion's five big yellow guns; they have three barrels each and you can set one to fire flak, another to fire a Terran Heavy Turret, and so on), but I don't remember seeing this implemented in the game. I could tell a turret to use both flak and a regular laser, but it would only fire one or the other, not both.

Regardless, will the EA Omega in the MOD be typically outfitted entirely with beams, or will it have a pulse/beam combo? Or will you tweak those aspects in the Ship Editor of FRED2 on a case by case basis?

BTW, if my questions are becoming annoying or ludicrous, just tell me to shut up. I get pesky this way sometimes.

I think it would be good to see the omega have a pulse and beam firing gun. It would be quite easy I thought, as I know that they cant fire at the same time, just like in FRED2. As for the whitestar Vs Omega, the whitestar would win every time. Why? Space is infinite ( S0 they tell me) so there lots of room to manoveur, and it does have regenerating armor. As for NSNR, the whitestar CRASHED into the omega after it was hit by the pulse guns at the front. Also, the whitestars were trying to disable the omegas, not destroy them. I think if a fleet of whitestars can take out a Vorlon base, they can take out a pesky Omega. Just imagine what a whitestar beam would do to the omega on full power. It would slice it in half!

__________________
/@

Don't forget there were about 30 Whitestars against 3 hostile Omegas. The Whitestars' bio-armour was used to EA weapons, the Whitestar fleet ambushed the EA forces and the EA fleet were not used to fighting Whitestars. I think all of this makes it unlikely that the Omegas would inflict much damage.

In my opinion one-on-one Omega Destroyers are marginally better than Whitestars due to their heavy firepower, and especially fighter capacity and defences. However I do think that any performance advantage either way is marginal. One point is that Whitestars may perform slightly better than Omegas when facing more advanced opponents with their better technology.

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Your compairing apples and oranges again.

An Omega is a DESTROYER class vessel. It has much more in the way of capability over the WhiteStar which is a medium class ship (for lack of a better term).

Destroyers have fighters, a number of shuttles, marines, security personel, significant endurance.

The WhiteStar has 1-3 Shuttles, no marines, and alot of speed and manuverability.

The firepower is arranged differently. Omega's are designed for frontal attack or rear retreat. They have turrets along the hull to hit ships that move along its sides.

The WhiteStar is arranged totally towards the front (with the exception of that single episode where it had turrets or something). The WhiteStar is designed for a more hit and run style. Move in, dodge, attack, run like hell. A Destroyer gets into the battle and sustains or disengages. A Destroyer cannot evade like a WhiteStar, but it has alot more behind it than a WhiteStar too.

So the two different classes of ships are designed for entirely different roles. Why build the Victory class if the WhiteStars are so good? Because they aren't everything and there is more to a ship than just straight fighting.

Stop thinking tactically and start thinking strategically.

And I think I'm going to take this opportunity to have the last word. So we can move on to another discussion. This one has been done to death.

When the Second Release comes out, you can have a three way battle between the Warlock, Sharlin, and Excalibur if you really want

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]