Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Stevensville, MT
Posts: 142

Patterns......

One day I was watching the last episode of the shadow war and I came up with an epiphany. Has Any one here ever really contemplated the relations between the past of B5 and the present?

If you haven't then contemplate this:

In the series we learn that the Shadows were around about the same tim ethat Loriens race showed up and that by the time the Vorlons come into the picture the Shadows are already ancient.
Now When Lorien shows up other races come with him from where ever. However after millions of years the other races, now collectivley know as first ones decide to leave the galaxy for the younger races. However the Shadows and Vorlons remain.
The Shadows and the Vorlons then form rifts in their views on how the galaxy should be run and therefore start a war. Eventually the Shadows retreat to their homeworld and the Vorlons start teaching the other races. Now sometime between this period and the period that comes later(the period of the series) the Shadows world is devastated , presumably by the Vorlons during one their little wars.
Now we come to the present, about 5 billion years after the Vorlons appear, when there are again numerous races probablly about at the same technological points that the first ones were at about 5 billion years ago. We have one race who is consiberably older than the other(Minbari), one race that has been "mentoring" the younger races(the Vorlons) and dozens of other races at relatavley the same evolutionary point. Now there's a war between Vorlons and Shadows which ends up with both of them leaving.
Now lets take antoher jump about 1 million years into the future when the humans have developed(presumablly) fully organic ships, and are leaving to join the other raves(presumablly) as they cross the rim of the Galaxy.
Now upon reading what I jusat typed i may be about as clear as a foot of brick wall so allow me to elaborate.
1. The Firstones(from here on called the FO's) and the humans both are saved by a sort of father figure, the FO's have Lorien and the New races have Sheridan.
2. Concivebly when a race grows to know all that there is to know about this galaxy then there is only one place to go: outside the galaxy.
3. Both the Shadows and the humans have had their planets devistated by war over a difference of views.
4. The elder races care for the younger races until the elders feel the youngers are ready to handle themselves.

These patterns( though possibly only existing in me mind) are real and from that we could attemt to extrapolate the existance of races from trillions of years ago, as they would exist in the B5 universe of course.

Now that I have waisted all of your precious time with that long (and not ver well though out) string of babel i will take my leave of you for the night.

Buenes Noches

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Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, there side, and the truth.
-Cap. John Sheridan

Where ever you go there you are.

There will be an answer. Let it be.- John Lenon

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

I guess it is pretty safe to tell you what JMS has wrote:

Humans and Minbari will go beyond the Rim in time but Centauri and Narns won't. I don't know about other races but JMS mentioned those four.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

As Lorien said, he is the First One. He was the first one of his race to be immortal (apart from illness and injury of course) and he was there in the galaxy before any other race appeared. This happened billions of years ago. As the first of the second generation stars (necessary for the production of varied atomic elements) appeared around ten billion years ago his claim about being first in the galaxy fits in with the galaxy's timeline.

Then the Shadows would have been the first race to explore the galaxy en masse, after Lorien's, followed by others and eventually the Vorlons.

The Shadows and Vorlons may have had many "Great Wars" throughout the millennia, with the Vorlons winning the last of them.

Then Lorien gathers the last of the First Ones and they leave the galaxy with the Shadows and Vorlons.

An interesting point is about the Great Burn, when Earth was ravaged by war 500 years in the future. Presumably Earth's colonies were also affected because otherwise they would have come to help rebuild Earth, either as allies or as conquerors. This rebuilding of Earth through the Rangers is reminiscent of Z'Ha'Dum being destroyed (mainly) by the Vorlons and their allies. Earth will be back but may be galvanised to do something about the universe when they are back. History repeats itself?

Looking at the far future, JMS has stated "The Minbari eventually make it; the Narn and Centauri do not. They don't die out, they just don't hit a state of First One-ishness, which is darn close to immortality (barring violence)".

This means that Humans, Minbari (and possibly other races out of Drazi, Brakiri, etc.) eventually attain a level of evolution on a par with the Vorlons. Presumably the Humans and Minbari learnt some of the lessons from history but the Centauri and Narn fell back upon petty disputes like their own wars.

Will it be necessary for Lorien (and other First Ones?) to come back and tell the Humans and Minbari that it is their time to step aside or will they realise on their own? Also, will we try to influence the other younger races as the Shadows and Vorlons did (Minbari order vs. Human chaos)?

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When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

Damn, while I was writing that reply, you came in and made the same quote

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 60

what you going on about, at the very end of that one the humans say good bye and leave for the rim.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

They weren't leaving to go to the rim, they were moving to New Earth as the old Earth would be consumed by the Sun going nova. The episode is centred on a Human (Ranger) downloading some final historical archives for transfer to New Earth.

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When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

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