Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Umm,

Anyone tell me where the Midwinter Class/Variant of the Hyperion is found in an official source?

(Leaving room for maneuver) I may be wrong but...

Can't recall thins as a mentioned class/type - either on the show or from AOG.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

Midwinter is not an official class.
Midwinter name used for Hyperions upgraded with beam cannons.

At least one Hyperion with beams were seen in the show.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 256

-_-

I mistook it for another ship.. -_-

Last edited by mobvekhar on 10-15-2001 at 07:25 PM

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, United States
Posts: 1016

it was seen in the show

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

According to AoG the Hyperions are classified in the same way as all other EA ships (i.e. They have a Greek letter designation) and the Midwinter class is the Hyperion Theta. However neither this name nor the Midwinter name are canon so there should be some lee way for people to use either as long as any single source is consistent with itself

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Yeh, ok.

So it's the used name by the mod for a different version of the Hyperion.

Why not use the AOG Alpha, Beta, Delta model types?

Icefire quotes The series then AOG second as source material?

Surely the introduce a "madeup" class name is less attractive?

(OK so I'm a bit of a purist- but where will it end, lol)

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 256

I know, but I thought he was talking about the Tempest.. stupid me.. -_-

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Triggy,

I point out that JMS has endorsed the AOG products AS CANON.

If the Midwinter will be the Hyperion Theta - why not call it that?

There will be the same debate with the Nova and Omega variants.

What id the team decide to call the Omega command variant "Pink Panther" ?!

Of course, they won't. But I hope you see my reasoning.

Finally, the series only showed a small portion of ship classes, variants etc. I think this is why JMS endorsed AOG. While I accept Icefire's previous comment that AOG have manipulated specific technical stats for gameplay purposes (as the team have for FS2), there will therefore be room to include lots of ships not seen in the series - Icefire has said that AOG is source second only to that within the show itself.

Regards.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
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There is one more proviso to the naming convention used and that is how many variants are you guys planning to use of each ship? If (as I suspect) the answer is basically one variant of each main ship hull type (seen in the show) then using the name Midwinter class seems to make more sense than Hyperion Theta when the older Delta version is not going to be used at all. Same goes for the Nova (Alpha/Beta) and Omega Destroyer (Alpha/Gamma). BTW, how difficult would it be to introduce mission specific variants of ships? For example an Hyperion Gamma is being used to launch an assault on a Minbari supply depot and you are part of a Starfury squadron giving covering fire.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Bear in mind that there will be campaigns set from the Dilgar War (and before? - mabe the last Shadow War) up to the forming of the IA.

I suggest that all the Hyperion variants will be required depending on the time setting of the campaign.

This would mean different weapon loadouts (and in some cases different turret mountings (eg. Hyperion rail gun, missile variant)).

If the team provide the weapon specs for use in FRED2, there is no reason why we can,t amend them to create our own variants. However, if they go that far it's probably just as easy to list each variant on a separate hull/model.

Regards.

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Registered: Oct 2001
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True, as time goes by having a standard naming system will not just become helpful but essential.

You can still have a captioned description of the ship (e.g. Rail cruiser, etc.) to help people remember. The best thing about the Greek letter naming system is that the letter order is the order that the modification was first used so it is logical.

Also, having the data to allow users to modify their own variants would be nice, and presumably not too difficult but as you say, if they're going to do this then they might as well assign a whole hull entry to each variant.

If you get a chance to read the AoG material then it is really quite interesting. I don't play the game but used the info to make my own version of a tabletop war game. There is plenty of background and general info on the ships seen on the show and many more.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Valley Village, CA
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Midwinter would be considered canon for the simple fact that many things have stemmed from the same source. The terrm midwinter comes from the site address of the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 website, the single best B5 resource there is. The Hyperion in fact comes from the original Lurker's Guide site address, thus Midwinter being the new one would be a logical extension of the Hyperion naming convention to begin with.

The story of the Hyperion name can be verifiyed from JMS' own words. Look it up. I'd say you guys using the Midwinter name would be following the right path. Great work guys.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

Regardless of the original source, the AoG books are considered official if not canon, so the names contained within have been officially endorsed by JMS. The matter you are speaking about is a slightly different case because there was no officiality to it even if JMS did say it.

This is not to say that I particularly disagree with the naming of the Hyperion as Midwinter class - it sounds better than Hyperion Theta, the problems arise when you start to have spin-off variants. Did you know that there are seven official Hyperion variants? (what would you call all of those then). To have a logical system with a ship description becomes the only reasonable way to do it - e.g. Hyperion Zeta (Railgun Cruiser) or (xxx) class, no description.

What you may see happening is the name staying the same now, only to change if later more variants come out. What do you think guys on this, and will there be any more variants on particular ship classes?

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

I agree Triggy.

We'll have to see what the team decide to do!

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Registered: Feb 2001
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As far as I know:

Midwinter will be Midwinter, not Hyperion Theta or whatever.

No other subclasses will be included for now, Midwinter needs different side turrets, that's why we will include it. Nova and Omega weapons can be changed in FRED2, no new subclasses required for this.

So in nutshell: We won't include subclasses until it requires modifications to model or textures.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong...

Edit: Oh yes... Black Omega StarFury is a subclass, it needs different textures, that's why it will be included too.

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 10-16-2001 at 03:01 PM

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Registered: Jul 2000
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The Midwinter is fairly canon....at least as canon as the Nova class name is. Officially, its just EA GunBoat....but Nova has been the term coined for this class and just about everyone accepts that (including AoG) so thats the name we'll use.

The Midwinter is a modified model in where the two side mounted turrets are turned into Particle Lasers, similar to the Omega's Particle Lasers. So its not just a minor change the weapons. We could also introduce speed and armor changes. Not sure if we will or won't.

Previous to the Hyperion class, the EA Heavy Cruiser was called the Roosevelt class and that was used in the Dilgar war. It had no fighter launch bays. Alot of this stuff is again, semi-canon as people had to invent some of the ideas. Alot of it is encouraged by official sources so we're taking it as such.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Ok Boss.

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Registered: Aug 2001
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Didn't we have this conversion, oh I don't know... in August or something?!?

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Yes. I've had most of these conversations for 2 years now

Just nobody bothered to pay attention 2 years ago so I have to repeat myself

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol, Wilds of Somerset, England
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Actually, Hyperion is the name of the first ship of that type we see in the series (series 1), so it was logical to name it that...

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