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Shivan vessels are clearly not designed for areospace travel.

Also, I have played Star Control II, however the fact that the Shivans home in onto sub-space signatures which is a byproduct of both FTL communications and travel I know for a fact is not influenced from that game.

There is very little in common between the Kor-Ah and the Shivans.

Now, from what we do know, we know that the Shivan technology does not require the use of Knossos devices since their drives can open such nodes on their own. (look at the manuvers which the Lucifer pulls in inter-system travel) We know that they have an affinity for nebular environments as well as with sub-space. (actually, their "affinity" and mobilization within nebulas may be an illusion due to allied forces within the Knossos nebula not being designed for such a conflict)

Overall, we can deduce that the destruction of Capella was to create new sub-space nodes, which then means that the Shivan's goals are to maintain a form of balance with sub-space.

Now if anyone remembers, ETAK uses "quantum pulses" not sub-space technologies, this means that for inter-ship communications the Shivans use minute distortions of space itself, not sub-space's N-dimensional space.

This helps to reinforce that the Shivan's goal is to maintain sub-space, as well as to "keep it clear of impurities".

Now it's just a theory, but it's the best one around.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ace:


Now it's just a theory, but it's the best one around.

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If you do say so yourself...

P.S. I like the point about us not being made for nebula battles, if there was an FS3 (which there unfortunately won't be) they could have built a ship for Nebula battles...

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I believe that in an engagement post 2367, the alliance would work to intergrate the technologies pioneered with the AWACs systems into the main fleet.

AWACs would only be used for aiding the defense of not-yet refitted vessels as well as for forward recons in force.

These technologies could be expected about in the timeframe which BWO occurs.

Also, I expected a debating reply on Shivan communication, which didn't happen so I'll add some fuel to fire.

We don't know what technologies were used within ETAK, or if Bosch himself had any true control over his rudimentary communications.

We know ETAK deals with Shivan biology, and within Warzone Russik uses hybrids based on this to be a part of his ETAK-based technology.

Whether the hybrids are a integral part of ETAK, and used as a means to allow basic communication, or whether Bosch managed to find a way to replace that function with automated systems, we do not know.

We do know that the Iceni was literally built around the ETAK device, so what systems are included within it might be Shivan in origin, whether organic or mechanical.

Whatever the cause, if Russik and Bosch can build it, then someone else has it and has been using it.

With the use of sub-space disturbances in the right proportions, one could easily mask ships or even fleets with a variant of ETAK devices without the extremes used by Russik or Bosch...

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Well, yes, Bosch (and presumably his top scientists) resurrected an old GTVI project using left-over technology from it. So someone has been using the technology, but probably not for a while before he did.

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in response to hose who were sugesting the shivans were once a terestrial speces, I just want to know why the would have legs on the tops of there bodys, there are clearly designed to bounce off of objects in space, thus my therory has always (before I even heard about FS2) been that they evolved in an asteroid feild in a nebula. for the simple fact that they need thingst to bounce off of and they need some sort of nutrient (there eating the nebula!!). the ship designs are clearly nonterestrial, they have no clear up or down left or right, if it wasn't for the fact that the moved in one direction you wouldn't be able to tell the front from the back. there ships also seem to be based on some sort of cristal/living (don't want to use the term organic) technology, though I'm not sugesting the ships are entierly grown, I do think that parts of the ships a grown, and cultured like we do today with cells to make orgins (yup were doing that). as to the hive mind this idea has been aroud sence the earlyest days, but I don't think it is quite as clear cut as that. they do seem to poses some sort of colective consius but they also have been knowen to be very adaptable, and i don't think there has been any evidence that sugests anything more than a highly evolved comunication system, wich would be quasi hive mindish but i don't think they have a system like the Borg. in any case they have obviusly modifyed them selves beond recognition, both geneticly and biomechanicaly and given that they have been doing this for at least 20,000 years (probably a LOT longer than that), any motives or homworld or any of this would be long forgoten even by them selves. they are very sensitive to subspace so my gues is that they have lived in subspace for a very long time, and they also have an infinant (not literaly but probly beond our general comprehention) fleet of ships that we havn't seen yet, for all we know this isn't even the shivan milatary, this could be some sort of scientific or religus sect (or a corperation, ), there big guns may uterly tear space apart. so no mater how long we try in the end if we can't figuer out why we are pissing them off we will fall the sam fate as the anchents.

one last tig my spelng sux

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Thats a pretty good summary Bobboau.

I always thought that organic and hive mind didn't quite fit the Shivans...but didn't quite not fit the Shivans. There's a paradox.

We may have dealt with two different sects of Shivans as well already. They are probably not corporations, maybe just a necessity of structure and division.

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I wan't realy serius about a corperation, but I ment it is posable that we havn't even seen anything that the shivans would consider a weapon. I also think that there are several clans, sects, subgroupes, whatever, within the shivan higherarcy, it seems the only plasable reason why there were so many diferent ships used by the diferent invasions, I mean the primary shivan fighter in fs1 was the scorpion, the primary bomber the ****an (I bet that gets cencored) but in FS2 we never see ether of these ships (not to mention the lucifer, and the lack of any shielded centeral ship in FS2, shows a diferent system) not to mention all the new shivan ships in FS2. I think there is sefishent evidence that the shivans may actualy be fighting among them selves.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ghost of Bobboau:
primary bomber the ****an

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There is some rather interesting speculation here and some facts i have noticed after analysing half the topic. By the way Snipes titanium can be collected from a dying star, some nebulas and asteroids. If you really think about the alloys we have today are nothing compared to what the Shivans have.

Heres something worth mentioning. The compostion of stars on the system chart that i have obtained from research:
Vega, Deneb: Hydogen and light metals
Sun, Capella: Many metals, especially iron
Antares: Heavy metals, titanium

Although the stars listed above are just a few on the chart it can explain a lot. Heres a theory, when a star dies its materials are spread over a vast amount of space thus creating nebulas, planets, stars and other space objects. This explosion might cause some material to effect other space objects to change. This might be a certain objective for the Shivans.

It could even be a way home as the Admiral said at the end of FS2 but i highly doubt that. The tech room info specifies that they are cosmic destroyers and even if they where searching for home they could easily get there. The Shivans are a highly violent species probably directed at a single goal. Unfortunately that goal is very hard to even assume or even predict.

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sigh

The easiest way to collect materials for a race which focuses on sub-space nodes is to gather resources where a vast amount of nodes lie.

Neutron stars due to their mass have greater numbers of nodes and affect the sub-space node network more adversly.

Thus, it is easiest and within their capabilites to gather resources from neutron stars.

The Rahu gas miners we see are assumed to be gas miners, we know they are full of deuterium which is gathered from nebular gas, but we can deduce that from the Shivan's age and sub-space technologies that their vessels do not operate on fusion based reactors.

However, we do know that the Lucifer class vessels unlike most of their fleet is powered by such reactors, though they are more efficient and powerful than anything in the alliance arsenal as seen by their power being more than an entire vessel loaded with Meson warheads.

It is easily assumable that if Rahus are used for mining, that they are used to reinforce the Lucifer vessels which appear to be advanced destroyers due to their focus on powerful main guns and fighter carrying.

One could assume that shield technology interferes with Shivan arbitrary power sources when in large scales, which is why the Lucifer type vessels use the more primitive fusion power, though their version is by far more powerful than imaginable.

We can assume from this, and the appearant lack of Shivan advancement that their technology has remained roughly the same since the creation of the Lucifer type vessels due to the lack of nesscessity to design new craft.

The sheer size of the Shivans versus the alliance means that they still have no need to design new vessels.

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Smart ass...


[This message has been edited by Snipes (edited 03-01-2001).]

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Lucifer is perhaps a very rare class of vessel or...perhaps as Bobboau has suggested...it may have belonged to a particular faction within the Shivan collective.

It is true, they are a highly violent xenocidal species. They seem selective in their targets, picking on subspace capable races only (they ignored Terrans and Vasudans when they destroyed the Ancients).

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Abuga wrote.....
I think that for a species that evolved in a nebulae, for example, would have adapted to 360 degree movement and 3D perception much like fishes. They would also not "downgrade" themselves to walking on a 2D plane like humans and Vasudans do....

They have adapted to 360movement or did you not see the cutscene in the freigter.They move in 3D as seen by their ships desighs which have corridoors going in all angles.There Legs are spread around them and they walk on all the walls ceiling etc.

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Sorry did not read the message properly.If they evoled in a nebula they would have been silicon and gasesous.They have legs which suggests that they had contact with solid structure but they could have evoled that but for all we know the Shivans could be in the suit as seen in the cutscene and could be gasesous residing withen the suit and they might be part argon and use the fusion weapon by using some argon.

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The argon idea seems quite reasonable but i think their is a combination of alloys that we are unaware of that makeup a Shivan. A nebula is a reminisce of a supernova, thus the nebula would consists of silimar materials as did the star before it exploded, although a nebula would contain natural elements but combined as well. This is only a result of the supernova first dispersing the elements and then many, many years later to combine these materials to form alloys and other products.

[This message has been edited by Maxim (edited 03-01-2001).]

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Which is why we say created by something...

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Where did they originate from? Which System were they created in?

[This message has been edited by Maxim (edited 03-01-2001).]

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Know one knows but i imagine it would be distant if they did but i believe that are from subspace its self as the tech room says perhaps they were born from the flux of subspace itself

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Born from the flux of subspace? Come on...

Even though it is possible, if they were born in space, they themselves would be able to attack ships, without the use of fighters, bombers, cruisers, etc... T
hey would also have some unknown way to propell themselves without leaping off of walls and whatnot... right?

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The problem with the theory of their being gas-bag creatures within a robotic shell is that the ships are designed to be an environment for their crew, period.

If they are dependant on that type of atmosphere then their entire ship would be filled with those gases and wouldn't be within those suits.

You can theorize that the things seen in the cutscene were defense drones, and the gases are shunted due to the ionized fields interfering with their systems, however that is an error of logic due to the age of the Shivans as well as their technology would be based upon their environment.

So overall, Shivans did not come from a nebula, and the conditions for them to be a nebular quasi-terrestrial race is null.

The Shivans more than likely cannot be birthed from sub-space due to the lack of solid matter in any form save energy, as well as each sub-space corridor created by a jump is in it's own plane of existance so to say. Sub-space tracking allows you to enter the same plane or corridor as another vessel. (the corridors actually aren't so, they are infinite length, so a lost ship would drift in that dimension for eternity)

Now someone will say that the Shivans evolved from a ship trapped in sub-space, right? sigh

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