Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 134

Shrike, say what? Most weapons in FS2 already cast light, as do warp holes.

Before everybody gets all crazy with expanding FS2, I'd like to see a version that does nothing more than fix the known bugs.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Oh no, there are no bugs in FS2.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
Shrike, say what? Most weapons in FS2 already cast light, as do warp holes.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
Shrike, say what? Most weapons in FS2 already cast light, as do warp holes.

---

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: South Australia,Australia,Sol
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Woohoo
The thought of being able to use beam weaponary on fighters and adding diferent effects makes me drool

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: South Australia,Australia,Sol
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Woohoo
The thought of being able to use beam weaponary on fighters and adding diferent effects makes me drool

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: GTD Haydon
Posts: 357

dave, can you explain what the problem is with putting rotating turrets on the sides of ships?

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Well, the details are bit hazy, but I think it goes something like this :

The higher level turret code relies on how turrets are oriented relative to subobjects of a model. The model subobject code was written such that it always assumed a subobject would always be axis-aligned with the main model. This was done partially for rendering reasons, but more importantly because the physics/collision code needed to make a simplified set of assumptions to be both fast and "correct". I'm kind of pulling this from dim memory, so take this with a grain of salt.

There's no reason it couldn't be done properly to allow arbitrary orientation of subobjects. _But_ this is a very big task. I'm pretty sure I remember having this discussion when FS2 was under development. There's a lot of ugly math involved and the potential for introducing bugs (very high) into a system which was perfectly functional was just too high.

For those with a strong consitution and access to the source code, see

void calculate_ship_ship_collision_physics(...);

Last edited by daveb on 04-25-2002 at 05:46 AM

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Well, the details are bit hazy, but I think it goes something like this :

The higher level turret code relies on how turrets are oriented relative to subobjects of a model. The model subobject code was written such that it always assumed a subobject would always be axis-aligned with the main model. This was done partially for rendering reasons, but more importantly because the physics/collision code needed to make a simplified set of assumptions to be both fast and "correct". I'm kind of pulling this from dim memory, so take this with a grain of salt.

There's no reason it couldn't be done properly to allow arbitrary orientation of subobjects. _But_ this is a very big task. I'm pretty sure I remember having this discussion when FS2 was under development. There's a lot of ugly math involved and the potential for introducing bugs (very high) into a system which was perfectly functional was just too high.

For those with a strong consitution and access to the source code, see

void calculate_ship_ship_collision_physics(...);

Last edited by daveb on 04-25-2002 at 05:46 AM

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Registered: Dec 2001
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o great, first semester of algebra 2 coming back to haunt me. So basically, if we were to adjust the code to allow for rotating turrets on the sides of ships we'd have to deal with a bunch of problems with the collision code, which in turn would have to be redone as well. Did it get that right?

(programming isnt my first language)

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Last edited by ltnarol on 04-25-2002 at 06:04 AM

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Registered: Dec 2001
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o great, first semester of algebra 2 coming back to haunt me. So basically, if we were to adjust the code to allow for rotating turrets on the sides of ships we'd have to deal with a bunch of problems with the collision code, which in turn would have to be redone as well. Did it get that right?

(programming isnt my first language)

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Last edited by ltnarol on 04-25-2002 at 06:04 AM

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Something like that.

Put it this way, all that stuff was written by Dave Andsager, who happens to have a phD in physics. Dave is a walking math reference manual and he spent many man-months over the course of 2 projects getting that stuff to be as good as it is. One of the major accomplishments in FS2 was getting proper collisions with moving subobjects. Its a very difficult problem.

But don't let that stop you! If someone could make non-axis-aligned subobjects with correct physics, collision, rendering and ai, I'd be pretty dang impressed.

But as a game developer, I'd put this _way_ low on my list of stuff-worth-doing simply because of the effort involved vs. the payoff. The 4 man months you'd spend making it all work and debugging it could be well spent elsewhere

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Something like that.

Put it this way, all that stuff was written by Dave Andsager, who happens to have a phD in physics. Dave is a walking math reference manual and he spent many man-months over the course of 2 projects getting that stuff to be as good as it is. One of the major accomplishments in FS2 was getting proper collisions with moving subobjects. Its a very difficult problem.

But don't let that stop you! If someone could make non-axis-aligned subobjects with correct physics, collision, rendering and ai, I'd be pretty dang impressed.

But as a game developer, I'd put this _way_ low on my list of stuff-worth-doing simply because of the effort involved vs. the payoff. The 4 man months you'd spend making it all work and debugging it could be well spent elsewhere

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Shrike
I said effects. That doesn't necessarily mean weapons fire.

---

What else is there? Engine glows?

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Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Shrike
I said effects. That doesn't necessarily mean weapons fire.

---

What else is there? Engine glows?

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That's [url=http://home.att.net/~clay.h/fs2/violition.htm]VOLITION[/url]!

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Registered: Jul 2000
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
What else is there? Engine glows?

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
What else is there? Engine glows?

---

__________________
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR COMPUTERS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUM WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

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There's just all kinds of cool lighting stuff that could be done. Although #1 on my list would be to speed up the low level lighting code itself. Its _way_ too expensive for what it does. I'd bet you could speed it up by a factor of 5 or more with a little effort.

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There's just all kinds of cool lighting stuff that could be done. Although #1 on my list would be to speed up the low level lighting code itself. Its _way_ too expensive for what it does. I'd bet you could speed it up by a factor of 5 or more with a little effort.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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IMO lighting is one of those key things.... a good lighting system makes everything look so much better.

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