Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Tampere,Finland
Posts: 25

I'll put up a direct quote of the canonity later today.
The Star Dreadnaught can grow new weapon emplacements out of its skin so it has total firing arc over all directions.

If i can't get a direct quote today go ask one to spacebattles.com im sure every B5 fan there can give you a direct quote from JMS saying that B5 wars is canon.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

I can't find anything that says that the Whitestar's Improved Neutron Lasers were Vorlon improved, but please prove me wrong

As for B5 Wars being canon, it is not canon, it is officially approved and authorised by WB and JMS, there is a difference. The only canon sources according to JMS are the 110 episodes of B5, 13 episodes of Crusade, 4 (soon to be 5) TV movies and the 8(?) comic strips. Official but non-canon sources include B5 Wars and the B5 novels. The difference between canon and official is that canon supercedes official in all cases in terms of officiality. This is because JMS has directly written and supervised the canon productions at all levels of development. The official products are supported in theory and as long as they don't contradict the existing B5 universe. Interestingly if a new canon source is produced, contradicting with an already written official source then the newer canon source takes precidence.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

It's you that has to prove everything...

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

By the way, I've just checked the B5 Wars rules and seen that none of the Vorlon ships have greater than 180 degree firing arcs for any of their weapons, thus going against the "can grow weapon turrets" theory. This is especially true of the main weapons.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Tampere,Finland
Posts: 25

quote:

---

Originally posted by Triggy
By the way, I've just checked the B5 Wars rules and seen that none of the Vorlon ships have greater than 180 degree firing arcs for any of their weapons, thus going against the "can grow weapon turrets" theory. This is especially true of the main weapons.

---

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

b5 wars etc is just official - canon - is the shows nothing else - perhaps the novels written by jms but nothing else - as someone said the star trek games and there have been alot of them were officially supported by paramount etc but just because of that it does not mean there is a hazard team on voyager or a race called the chodak etc - its the same for b5 - i would say a vorlon dreadnaught can probally grow weapons all over its skin or certainly on parts of it perahps not right where the engines are but other than that - and b5 wars sources are not going to convince me otherwise so i would say vorlon ships likely have a firing arc all be it far less powerful than there forwards of close to maybe 300 degrees not 360 though



as for the weapons on th whitestar - hasn't it occured to you that they look minbari - the ship doesn't sprout tenticles which seem to be where all vorlon veapons fire from - and it was ceratin implied in the show that the armour was vorlon and the engines had been ehnaced by vorlon tech to allow sucha small ship to opena jump point - even the armour is like the omega armour - tis syntetic it doesn't grow its not alive like vorlon and shadows ships they can basically change there shape at will

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

We have seen on the show that the Whitestars are mainly organic as both the outer hull and the systems on the bridge of a Whitestar have been seen to regenerate before our very eyes.

I also agree on the weapons issue - the Whitestar's main weapon is basically a (very) slightly improved neutron laser (the type seen as the heaviest beam on Sharlins). The major difference between the Sharlin and the Whitestar is that the Whitestar only has one such beam, whereas the Sharlin has multiple neutron lasers and fusion cannon.

The Vorlon tentacle point has never seen any concrete evidence one way or the other. Vorlon ships can grow tenticles (seen in show) but have never done so in a combat situation, nor have the tenticles been shown to be able to fire powerful weapons.

From the point of view of the Mod I can't see any way that they can have sprouting tentacles (regardless of the "real" situation). This means that to provide wider arcs of weapons there is first a turret on the Vorlon Cruisers on the top, but more simply, the four main tentacles could fire weaker beams independently in different directions. This is not such a silly idea as it may first sound as this is even the way the weapons can actually work in B5 Wars!

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Registered: Nov 2001
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No offence to all, as I started this debate, but haven't we all gone a bit off the point. This is a Victory Vs Sharlin debate

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

quote:

---

Originally posted by nct000335
No offence to all, as I started this debate, but haven't we all gone a bit off the point. This is a Victory Vs Sharlin debate

---

This WAS.
Discussion about the matter was closed when me and KMN finally agreed. No pun intended.

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 12-11-2001 at 03:16 PM

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

I would love to close this threat, but whenever I do that half the world complains. Oh poor Skullar !
Earlier , half the world was against me. But now, half the world is NOT against me.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

It's ok, Skullar, when/if we get a quote about the canon-icity (new word!) of B5 Wars, I'll close it

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

the tempatation to abuse ones power must be great =) - power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutly - thankfully i am the only god here abouts and i never abuse my powers - unless its going to be really fun =)

(realising i have no powers - i feel suicidal - what use is a god with no powers=( ah well thats my lot in life )

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol, Wilds of Somerset, England
Posts: 75

110 episodes of B5?!?
Holy s***! I've watched 108 episodes! And I can remember what happened in every single one! I've GOT most of them on the bookshelf beside me...

As for B5 wars, I rate it as non cannon. Although a couple of the ships may look good and be useful for filling out fleets, that's it.

The main difference between Vorlon biological tech and the stuff used on the Whitestar is the Whitestar uses a skin of Vorlon Bio-Armour, while a Vorlon ship is actually a living entity (Kosh's ship).
As for the Vorlon ships growing turrets, I would say no... maybe those little ones that came out when Sheridan approached the ship, but they'd be pretty weak and seriously underpowered when it comes to taking out space craft.
And for the Whitestar weaponry- it is weaker than a Sharlins. A Sharlins weaponry has been clearly shown slicing through a Nova's armour with ease, and while the armour on the Omega's have probably been upgraded, it would not be strong enough to cope with a Sharlins beams. A whitestars beam has trouble getting through Omega armour... you work it out

Ok, that's my little jaunt finished

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Yes. Even TBP is more canon than B5-wars

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

Well, aside from the making everything tougher (more hit points) than in the show, no ship slicing, no player-controlled fighter beams, stop me if I'm getting tedious, issues to improve gameplay

I don't mean to poke fun at TBP but it's hardly canon, just well researched and an enjoyable and realistic game.

Yes, there are 110 episodes: 22 in each of the five series.

I'm finally getting the Series 3 boxed set for Christmas to complete my legally bought B5 video collection

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Last edited by Triggy on 12-12-2001 at 10:49 AM

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Tampere,Finland
Posts: 25

Here you go.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Babylon 5 Wars Bruce Graw and Robert Glass
Subject: Getting it right

Source: B5 Wars Rules compendium (Foreword)

Making a television series like Babylon 5 requires that you think like an Irish border collie: you have to be detail-oriented, maniacally obsessive, tightly focused and utterly relentless. The massive and intertwined plots and stories aside, there are a million tiny details that you have to get right. How does the centrifugal force work inside B5 to create gravity? how can a Starfury fly backwards while flying forward? What is the gravity on Mars?

You know why you have to get them right? Because if you don't you get letters ("No, no, it should centripedal, not centrifugal, you idiot. And by the way could I have a autographed picture so I can hang it in the basement of my mom's house where I'm living while finishing up my third PhD in quantum mechanics ?")

Sometimes it's difficult to make licensees understand the importance of getting the details right. For a show like B5, this is massively important. As Michelangelo said, "Trifles make perfection, and perfection is no trifle." So you will understand the wonderful experience of working on Agents of Gaming has been throughout the history of B5. they where not only one of the first to come on board and license B5, they instantly understood our desire to get things right in the smallest detail and even took a step further becoming more rigorous than we where.

How rigorous you ask?

When other licensees needed information on ship configurations, we referred them to the AoG books (such as the one you are holding in your hands). When we were in production engaged in the writing of episodes and the mapping of sets, if I was not available to answer a specific question on a technical area covered by AoG.....the people involved where directed to go to the AoG books. Whenever AoG miniatures showed up on set there was always a feeding frenzy of the sort usually associated with an unlucky cow falling into a river full of Piranha.

What I am saying, in this roundabout way is that if you want the Real Deal, if you want accuracy, canonical authority and the best of the best when its comes to Babylon 5 licensing and gaming....you've come to the right place.

Enjoy

J. Michael Straczynski
Creator/Writer/Executive Producer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Claw we know for a fact that the Vorlon bio armor regeneration rate is very high from what we have seen in the whitestar.So if Kosh's relatively small transport ship could grow a sophisticated scanner out of its skin in a few seconds then why couldn't a full fledged Vorlon Drednaught grow some lightning cannon turrets out of its skin after all it wouldn't be in anyway impossible when taking into note the high level of technology the Vorlons have.Besides it would be completely logical that the ship could create anti fighter turrets.It would be a complete idiocy to leave the ship deffensless from the rear and trust fully only on its main cannon in terms of deffense.

Hmm how has the whitestar beam having trouble getting thru Omega armor? In NSNR when one of the whitestars fired on the side of one of the Omega's it made some pretty nasty damage, the whole ship shaked and a large explosion covered a big area of the omega's hull.The whitestars main beam is an improved neutron laser the whitestars main beam emitter is a lot smaller than the heaviest beam cannon emitters on the Sharlin but still the Whitestar has the ability to quickly disable or destroy an Omega and it can destroy a Shadow battlecrab when in full power.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

Have you seen the transport firing a planet killer gun from its ass? I havent...
Yeah... I saw the thing that grew when Sheridan approached it. But eweryone suspected it to be a weapon. It could have been some ****ing door handel for all we know!
Besides, in the FS2 engine this thing is pretty much impossible to create. So, thats it... (I however agree that bigger Vorlon ships should have some anti fighter defences...)

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Oh ****! Those idiots did it.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 163

Possibly the larger Vorlon ships don't need additional
defences against fighters. After all, if the whitestar takes
only minimal damage from shadow fighters (war without
end) then I doubt a large Vorlon ship would even notice
them.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

There was still alot of whitestars needed to disable the 5 remaining Omega's in 'Endgame'. They fired their beams on the Omega's, and of course they shake a lot, even B5 shakes when hit by a fighter gun. Also in (I believe) 'No retreat, no surrender' , at least 15 whitestars had a lot of trouble taking out 6 Omega's, and of those 6 Omega's only 2 or 3 fired back...
And the Battlecrab it took out was probably the smallest version, and it took a long time, while the battlecrab was blocked by Lyta, if it wasn't the whitestar would have been decimated within seconds...

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
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The more ships you have doing something, the quicker it gets done, time was of the essence, so Sheridan had all the Whitestars go to work. For a ship of their class, (corvette I think) the Whitestar packs a LOT of firepower. It easily outguns, outruns, and outmanuvers the Drazi Sunhawk. The Whitestar can probably take out a Vorchan fairly easily, and the Vorchan is a larger vessel.
As for No Surrender No retreat, I think some of that was done for ambiance. I think the overall mood of Sheridan being forced to fire on Earthforce vessels, was what JMS was going for. The good guys won, lets just enjoy the show and not nitpick. (too much)

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