Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

Mungrel if you paid any atention you´d probably remember what I said about the first encouter with the mimbari:
Several Earth ships fired At ONE Sharlin causing only MODRATE DAMAGE(and trigered the war). Thats a fact, now I don´t know were you got the idea that earth ships could take sharlins evenly if the sensors could pick cloaked minbari ships.
That event clearly shows that it would need a massive numeric advantage to destroy a single ship THUS my claim that human weapons are not efective against the mimbari,maybe except for the advanced ships like the warlock(even this one is debatable) and The victory class ships. GET THE IDEA NOW???
I didn´t replied earlier because of my busy life but I keep peeking once a while

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

i disagree entirely if you look at the footage of it hapening in hit tears a chunk out of a large section of a sharlin - it was more that they were just trying to hit there sensors and leave. afew more hits liek the one that tooka chunk out of the sharlin would have destroyed it - just the mimbari went into stealth mode and started fighting back thats why the ship only recieved moderate damage - and i not sure but wasn't there more than one sharlin there?? which means the earth ship survived and did more damage to the mimbari than they managed too when it wasn't much more than one on one - i'm ging to go watch it just to check becasue i'm not certain tehre were other ships there

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

Ah one more thing...you mentioned the vietnam war did'nt you?
That war just prooves my point that a more balanced and robust army can take another that is not as versatile. Ok the US had F-4 and B-52 but the vietcongs had lots o deadly Sa-2 plus the advantage of being 'cloaked in the forests' the clumsy tanks and traditional Us tactics were unfited for this enviroment. (I'm gonna get you and I' gonna get you real bad )and don't take this personal...make peacenot war

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

quote:
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originly posted by killmenow:
it was more that they were just trying to hit there sensors and leave. afew more hits liek the one that tooka chunk out of the sharlin would have destroyed it
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you said it! A FEW MORE HITS LIKE THAT WOULD HAVE DESTROYED IT. How many hits would a sharlin need to inflict on a NOVA or an OMEGA
to destroy it? (I'll answer for you) ONE!!!
And on top of that ,the shalin was caught with its defenses down...even more, would an Omega or nova get a chance to hit the sharlin first if this last one new it was going to be attacked?? I leave you to think about this...About the other ships present in the first encounter... did they had a chance to hit the human ships before they left?
PS just remember I'm here to make a friendly debate so don't take my aggresseviness too personaly I jus like to tease a litle bit...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

Just one question ( a non hostile one...)Is there a colection of B5 videos for sale? I cant find any.I would like to watch the show again as I have only 5 episodes on tape and the series ended quite a while ago...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 81

well it was the MInbari that started the war... yeah approach some other vessels with their gunports open just like the minbari did..

Just another note the incident that started the Earth/Minbari war... Earths vessels where on a test mission...

just because we like you dosent mean we can hurt you Harold

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Nova Dreadnog

Exact armament for the Nova is open to debate, as the ship can be retrofitted with different armament depending upon the vessel's given mission

thats 44 Fusion beam cannons

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Finland
Posts: 553

EA ships got their asses kicked in the E-M war. I can't believe you're debating that those Hyperions and Novas could actually inflict a lot of damage against the Sharlins.

The Warlock has some hella cool beams. But ONE of them is only about as powerful as ONE of the Sharlins main cannons.

EA might have the numerical advantage, but the Minbar definately have the quality on their side

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

yeah they did - they managed to take afew of the turrets off the hyperion - or prometheus - and and i will give you that at that time the earth aliiance was no match for the mimbari at all - was basically shooting fish in a barrel - but earth has come back from it and has been doing everything they possibly can to lessen the tech gap between them and the mimbari - with new sensors and the new beam weaponarywhich they didn't seem to have at the begining since it certainly wasn't used top that off with the improvements in beam weapons developed by EA i think that they are close to the specs of a mimbari beam - anyway onto another subject while the mimbari made the white stars like i said ALOT of the rangers are human i wouldn't think many of them would ever attack earth also i think the omega x is more than a match for a single white star - they just used there maneouverbility and combined there firepower where as the omega x one good hit took a white star down

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location:
Posts: 81

EA might have the numerical advantage, but the Minbar definately have the quality on their side

hehe history lesson WW2 hitler had the best tanks planes boats etc etc took over some countries... then they messed with russia that relied on numbers than quality and what happened MUHAHAHAHAHAHHA well germany lost and we now speak english instead of german...

so quality dosent always mean sucess

and a NOva Still takes down a Sharlin nomatterwhatyoutrytoputupforevidence...

annoying and yes its my right as human being to be annoying suppresive digestive

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Nova Dreadnog

Exact armament for the Nova is open to debate, as the ship can be retrofitted with different armament depending upon the vessel's given mission

thats 44 Fusion beam cannons

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

quote
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Originaly posted by G2megatron
then they messed with russia that relied on numbers than quality and what happened MUHAHAHAHAHAHHA well germany lost and we now speak english instead of german...
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Helooo its me again the party spoiler( I love being a party spoiler for those ho dont know what their talking about.
Another history lesson he?
well Russia actuly was not behind the germans in quality they just took a while to get on their feet and organize. After a bloddy war in the snow the Russians threw new tanks and planes to the front in such numbers that not even on the german home ground they stood a chance. The latest russian tanks were even better than the german panzer tiger tanks.And what it respects to planes... well take a look to the coments about the new IL2 sturmovick simulation game youll find all you need.
And you didnt answer to my question Is there a colection of B5 videos on sale?

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

Ok now the discution is drifting from the original matter and we´re not going anywere I cant get you guys reazon instead you prefer being over optimistic and say 'to hell with it we are superior even wen armed with sling shots'in a joker attitude.Your letting your pride cloud your judgement. I allways contested your affirmations with the show 'facts' and you always try to get arround them. Just look at the post were I have presented several factors why we would not win aginst the mimbari. There is no lie in it.I watched some of you ending up saing thigs that contradict his own claims without even knowing... think twice before you speak.
While there were good arguments such as the unknown habitats,force numbers and resourses those are insuficient as they are unknown variables.
Were trying to Get the MOD as close to the series as possible, on this passe well be able to beat the mimbari military in a campaign representing the first E-M war! Thats not what we saw.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Vienna
Posts: 57

quote:

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Originally posted by KillMeNow:
but earth has come back from it and has been doing everything they possibly can to lessen the tech gap between them and the mimbari - with new sensors and the new beam weaponarywhich they didn't seem to have at the begining since it certainly wasn't used top that off with the improvements in beam weapons developed by EA i think that they are close to the specs of a mimbari beam - anyway onto another subject while the mimbari made the white stars like i said ALOT of the rangers are human i wouldn't think many of them would ever attack earth also i think the omega x is more than a match for a single white star - they just used there maneouverbility and combined there firepower where as the omega x one good hit took a white star down

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As for the White Stars, yes, that's what I said, the Omega-Xs could kill them with one shot and were a big problem, but they were few of them and there are I believe thousands of White Stars, well maybe after the shadow war not that many. As for the Rangers, nobody gives a f*** who leads a ship, it's about who owns it. And you're getting far too theoretical about them.
And Minbari beams are much more powerful, look up the exact numbers if you like.

haderak, you're my personal hero.

Kuba

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

Every scene in "In the Beginning" shows the Earth ships getting the asses whupped. We really don't get to see what damage Earth ships were inflicting, since they almost never got a shot off. The Minbari weren't so technically advanced that Earth weapons couldn't hurt them, but that the Minbari employed devastating tactics and sensor stealth to prevent the Novas and Hyperions from getting shots off.

I still think that if a couple of Novas were able to go on the offensive with a Sharlin that they could really give it a pumelling. All those Plasma guns are pretty damn powerful.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

Said it before but ill say again now ( I'm going dehidrated, so much saliva spent...)
The Mimbari ships have an energy dispersing armour they dissipate anergy, and if a weapon is not focused enough, little damage they will do. novas and their plasma cannons... sure they provide great fireworks but they are hot charged gas accelarators relatevely inefective against minbari armour. Beam weapons are the only chance, earth ships are equiped with them but they are substantialy less powerfull, not entirely because of their tecnology but rather their powerplant output wich is far smaller when compared to the gravimetric drive that equips the minbari ships. So resuming the minbari have more powerful weapons and armour. the earth ship beans can hurt a sharlin but not to the extent of putting it ou of commision. then the sharlin would fight back... superior fire power against inferior armour... odds of survival are not good.
Omegas-X... I agree that they can destroy a whitestar with a single shot we've seen that, but the real problem is that these last can even evade a battlecraband are also very powerfull. As we all agree the Omegas-x are an extint breed since the endo of the civil war.their sucssessors are the warlocks.
Sure the warlocks are very powerfull but they are a byproduct of fast reverse engineering, because of this they must have umbalanced systems i.e. bad ass weapons but not so bad ass powerplant and/or armour or etc. some systems resemble more to the original stuff than others this means that the ship in a hole is incapable of taking advantage of all its abilities. More ,they're recent and must be dificult to produce them so there's not many of them.Victory class ship... it rocks perhaps this one is capable of destrying a shalin in a single shot but there is only one and its incomplete. To achieve a comparable minbari level it would require at lest the same numbers of warlock as sharlins (even this is being optimistic) a few more victorys would also help,more thunderbolts, not to mention upgrades to all these ships every time human scientists found more on minbari, vorlon and shadow tecnology. This would at least take decades more.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

let me get this right if the entire crew of a whitestar is human and there ordered by mmbari who are trying to exterminate human race do you really think tehre going to obey those orders?

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: I have no idea
Posts: 17

quote:

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Originally posted by haderak:
Now I don´t know were you got the idea that earth ships could take sharlins evenly if the sensors could pick cloaked minbari ships.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, United States
Posts: 1016

Even if we could have gained clear targetting solutions on the minbari fleet, they would whipp our asses, four nials [a wing] have been known to Eliminate a Hyperion Class cruiser without fire support of a capital ship!

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FreeSpace 2: The Babylon Project Effects Nerd and programmer

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

the nial is certainly a powerful fighter but its effectiveness against the hyperion isn't a big deal the hyperion doesn't seem set up to defend against fighters plus i dont think they could take it if it had fighter support and the hyperion does carry a limited number of fighters

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 2

This was quite a fun post originally though it now seems to be mired in fanticism which I dislike.
When I first read the post I thought it would be a close contest but the Minbari would win but after reading everyones posts I agree with Ice that Earth would win. What changed my mind was kabu and whatsname fanatical defense of their postion on the topic and their aggressiveness against anyone speaking against their postion which I find especially annoying.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Vienna
Posts: 57

quote:

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Originally posted by Jabu:

EA might have the numerical advantage, but the Minbar definately have the quality on their side

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