Registered: Aug 2001
Location: The White Tower, Tar Valon
Posts: 130

quote:

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"Spinning stations"?? Am I missing something??

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

Right, centrefugal force... but I'm asking if there are SHIVAN spinning stations. I understand the need for Terrans and Vasudans, but as far as we know (or speculate), Shivans evolved in 0-G...

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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 47

Those strange devices you had to destroy in the last special operations mission were spinning. They weren't big enough to be a space station though.

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Registered: Jul 2001
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Posts: 1234

quote:

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Originally posted by ns33
Right, centrefugal force... but I'm asking if there are SHIVAN spinning stations. I understand the need for Terrans and Vasudans, but as far as we know (or speculate), Shivans evolved in 0-G...

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

quote:

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The shivans obviously evolved (at least partly) in an enviroment where there was gravity. Their form is completely wrong for a zero-G lifeform.

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Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Imperial Palace, Coruscant
Posts: 272

True zero-G lifeforms would look like jellyfish, methinks...

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 75

Yeah, but if the shivans have been in space for millions of years, they would have evolved more( even though they are already an advanced society ) Just like humans are still evolving. So maybe
when they first entered space, they looked more normal, but as they were no longer dependent on a planet for thier survival they attained zero G characteristics. It did say we only know for sure that they did part of thier evolution in space right?

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Stelring, VA, USA
Posts: 212

my take,

One, Shivans don't die of old age. This kind goes with the problem of why the tech hasn't changed... neither have they. Time is not a factor in terms of the shivans don't need to eat, sleep, immune to disease.... They might be capable of communication...

Someone mentioned earlier the thought of the shivans being sleepers... What if they just keep going arounfd killing anything that reaches a level of sophistication that is capable of eliminating them... if you have superior firepower and are always there before your prey can advance beyond you and you elimninate them first, you don't need to upgrade your tech... The shivans have not upgraded a single piece of technology since the war with the ancients... but how many more things were wiped out by the shivans before them...
Someone also pointed out the fact that shivans only attack when another species enters subspace... an indication of a a level of technology reached? If shivans live in subspace, why make the shielded Lucifer to be effective in normal space? The shivans seem to be content with being in normal space and not subspace... that we seen thus far(perhaps [V] had some intense subspace settings for battles).

Still the biggest thing that bugs me is the lack of advancement over 8000+ years... and only thing I can think of is shivans being immortal, or unaffected by aging. Who knows.

(Lucifer withstand Supernova.... I say maybe.... Might explain pratical purpose for the shield... Sathanas can cause a sun to super nova.... and the Lucifer is used in some purpose... were they trying to make a new lucifer, trying to call it back not knowing it was destroyed? Or were they merely doing a process that needs to be completed and that requires to stay behind to collect...data, music, food, bend/weavespace....etc)

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Stelring, VA, USA
Posts: 212

and what if those aren't muscles...

Shivan kinda remind me of something being pulled inside out....
consiquentially, isn't that exposure to space could do to a life form(or it could just explode from the force of the pressure iniside the body, and the lack there of on the outside)

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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

No.
A body does not burst in vacuum. (The pressure difference to normal is only 1 psi!) The blood does not boil, you don't instantly freeze, you don't instantly pass out - only after the oxygen supply in your blood is depleted. Dispel the myths, [url=http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html]do some reading[/url].

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

Shivan anatomy is totally different than anything we've ever seen. The Vasudans were probably created by [V] to appear humanlike so the gamers would at least "think" of them as an "human-like ally" instead of some jelly-fish species which likes headz.

My guess would be that Shivan is a silicon based life-form. Tech specifies that a single Shivan arm can snap the strongest alloy, and can snap just about anything. I can't see anyway how muscules can do this. This probably ties in with genetics. Carbon-based life forms have genetic material in DNA. But as I see it, and of course much of so far is still speculation, there is no way for Shivans to reproduce by themselves. If this is true, then these Shivans (billions and maybe trillions of em) were "made" at one time. So this raises another question: Where did they come from.

Note how much this thread is digressing although Lucy shields have something to do with these strange... Shi-vans.

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Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

quote:

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Originally posted by ns33
Note how much this thread is digressing although Lucy shields have something to do with these strange... Shi-vans.

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Yes, about that... Lucifer's shields could not withstand a supernova. It is more powerful than what anyone could imagine in our wildest dreams - if you think you have grasped the magnitude and power of a supernova, you've probably underestimated it a million-fold...

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 75

Yeah i dont think theres any way it could have surived a close range supernova(or nova for that matter) I always assumed the

Satanas fleet used the star to jump to a different system(or galaxy, or if you're really wild universe)

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Imperial Palace, Coruscant
Posts: 272

quote:

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Originally posted by ns33
My guess would be that Shivan is a silicon based life-form.

---

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Budapest - Hungary
Posts: 32

I think (hope sometime ppl will notice previous replies ) the Shivans only harnessed Capella's power for creating a jump node out of nothing.
*Check the subspace thread if you want to read the rest
Anyway I think it's a matter of distance. We don't know the shielding mechanism, but what we do know is the aproximate power of the explosion.
That energy dissipates as radiation and a shockwave (much like a nuclear bomb, though there the most significant form of energy is heat, but in space heat can only be dissipated thogh radiation).
I think the initial posts in the Capella Supernova thread made the mistake that they didn't count the distance appropiatly.
Radiation lessens squarly as the distance increases. So from a couple of AUs it's already not as much of a punishment as near ground zero.
The shockwave even looses energy faster. Although the particles retain their velocity the actual mass lessens cubicly.
If the Lucifer had five fusion reactors - say the same that could propel an Orion - then we could calculate their output. About 80-60% of that could belong to creating the shield. I think the shockwaves energy should exeede the amount of energy the reactors create during the time of the impact to puch through the shield.

So in terms of references if Capella was a sun similar to Sol than, the Lucifer would be doubtlessly destroyed if the shockwave caught it within the radius of Venus' orbit even Earth - although shadowing a planet would afford some further protection.
In Martian orbit I think it may have survived the blast.
Beyond that the shockwave would have minimal effects.

Radiation on the other hand may still fry the whole ship - at least all the electronis devices.

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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: milwaukee
Posts: 75

On that point i think that all of the inner planets (mercury, venus,mars,earth) Would be destroyed. We have to keep in mind

that capella went supernova, and not just nova. This means that all of the stars energy was sent out into space except for an ultra

dense nutron soup core. (to give an idea of the density, 5 cranes couldnt pick up a teaspoon of this stuff) So i think you're overestimating the strength of a planets surface.

Odds are that capellas core made a small black hole, and the change in solar wind which is associated with a black hole would have likely destroyes any nearby planet.

So to conclude, if the Satanas' had stayed in system, they would have been destroyed, but you'll notice on the cutsene that is seems as if the important ships jumped out.

As for the lucifer, i dont think i could have survived.
But, i could be wrong

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
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That would be all true and could probably be proven if it were a natural death. It was a forced death by technology, and the results could be unpredictable.

Its simply not possible the Lucy could've survived the Capella nova. The energy we're talking about is HUGE, all matter would be obliterated by the fusion reaction. We're no longer talking about a release of iron and heavier metals, we're talking about helium and hydrogen still being produced. The energy needed to create the nova amounts to about how much the star spit out. I strongly think that nothing could survive that blast within 10 AUs (dont forget its a binary system).

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Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

Everyone's still underestimating the power of a supernova. One thing I thought about a little soon after completing FS2 for the first time, was the fate of Capella's neighbouring systems... How far were they again? They too are in line to take a beating from the radiation from Capella... At least Earth is far enough to just get the brilliant light show, after decades, and not the life-killing radiation fruit basket...

Some [url=http://www.earthsky.com/1999/es991224.html]link that I found[/url] while trying to find a research publication etc. about this; not much to go on, but it's something... (Check [url=http://www.earthsky.com/1999/es991225.html]the next one[/url] too.)

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

I think light takes some 9 minutes to reach Earch from the sun. Just something relative......

<--- nice

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Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

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Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

The average distance of the Sun from the Earth (one AU, astronomical unit) is 8.3 lightminutes. Jupiter is 43 lightminutes away from Sun, and nearest star system, Alpha Centauri A and B, are 4 lightyears away...

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