Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 37

Jamie,

I've run too many drivers to really give you a decent rundown. In fact, I go to RAGE3D and download all the new BETA drivers from ATI when they are released. Well, maybe not all, but at least once a month.

I've run my 8500 on both a Celeron 850mhz system running Windows 2K, Windows 98, and Windows XP. The 8500 has only been running on an AMD 1900XP+ system (Epox 8K3A+ motherboard, my current system, about a month old) and only with Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Mechwarrior 4, FLight sim 2000, Ultima Online, Star Trek Voyager: ELite Force, Independence War 2 Demo, Freespace 2.

On the Celeron system, I ran all those and much more - Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, System shock 2, deus ex, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, MS Train SImulator, IL2 Sturmvick , Half Life, XWing vs Tiefighter, COmbat Flight Sim 2, Black and White....and more with the 8500.

I cannot remember a single driver or Radeon 8500 issue, ever. I do remember issues that dealt with my Soundblaster Live Value not properly working with Windows 2K or XP, and it is gone from my system. I think that both Nvidia and ATI are good companies and make good cards and pretty much anything Geforce 3, 4 (non-MX) and Radeon 8500 will do you quite nicely and make you very happy. I would just stay away from Geforce 2 and anything NVidia with "mx" attached to it and anything ATI with a model number lower than 8500. I would also suggest not to install any of the drivers that ship with your card on the CD. Download drivers in advance from your manufacturer's web site and use those instead.

I do have a personal opinion that you will get more 'bang for your buck' right now with a Radeon 8500. Dollars does seem to be something that you mention. That card is faster, and supports more features and is cheaper right now than anything Nvidia offers. That may change in a few weeks or next month, in which case I would be more than happy to recommend an Nvidia or Matrox card. Others would manufacture all kinds of things to sway you to their 'one' way of thinking no matter the actual overall reality. I got over that when I was about 16 years old, I do realize that that sort of zealousness and blindness does stick with some until they are very old. I am quite thankful that I am no longer that way. Life is too stressful enough when it comes to important issues such as retirement, love, and new cars (smile) to spend lots of emotion on a damned video card that will be out of date in a few months anyway.

Last edited by Heinrich on 07-07-2002 at 05:46 AM

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 37

Jamie,

I've run too many drivers to really give you a decent rundown. In fact, I go to RAGE3D and download all the new BETA drivers from ATI when they are released. Well, maybe not all, but at least once a month.

I've run my 8500 on both a Celeron 850mhz system running Windows 2K, Windows 98, and Windows XP. The 8500 has only been running on an AMD 1900XP+ system (Epox 8K3A+ motherboard, my current system, about a month old) and only with Neverwinter Nights, Morrowind, Mechwarrior 4, FLight sim 2000, Ultima Online, Star Trek Voyager: ELite Force, Independence War 2 Demo, Freespace 2.

On the Celeron system, I ran all those and much more - Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, System shock 2, deus ex, Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, MS Train SImulator, IL2 Sturmvick , Half Life, XWing vs Tiefighter, COmbat Flight Sim 2, Black and White....and more with the 8500.

I cannot remember a single driver or Radeon 8500 issue, ever. I do remember issues that dealt with my Soundblaster Live Value not properly working with Windows 2K or XP, and it is gone from my system. I think that both Nvidia and ATI are good companies and make good cards and pretty much anything Geforce 3, 4 (non-MX) and Radeon 8500 will do you quite nicely and make you very happy. I would just stay away from Geforce 2 and anything NVidia with "mx" attached to it and anything ATI with a model number lower than 8500. I would also suggest not to install any of the drivers that ship with your card on the CD. Download drivers in advance from your manufacturer's web site and use those instead.

I do have a personal opinion that you will get more 'bang for your buck' right now with a Radeon 8500. Dollars does seem to be something that you mention. That card is faster, and supports more features and is cheaper right now than anything Nvidia offers. That may change in a few weeks or next month, in which case I would be more than happy to recommend an Nvidia or Matrox card. Others would manufacture all kinds of things to sway you to their 'one' way of thinking no matter the actual overall reality. I got over that when I was about 16 years old, I do realize that that sort of zealousness and blindness does stick with some until they are very old. I am quite thankful that I am no longer that way. Life is too stressful enough when it comes to important issues such as retirement, love, and new cars (smile) to spend lots of emotion on a damned video card that will be out of date in a few months anyway.

Last edited by Heinrich on 07-07-2002 at 05:46 AM

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well,

Right now, i have put in my Voodoo 5 5500 64MB Card for FreeSpace 1& 2 and AvP2, which of course, i have Excellent Framerates for the first time ever.

But, only those games work with the Voodoo 5, all the others either crash or have graphic corruptions which are unplayable.

If EVERYTHING worked with my Voodoo 5, i would keep it in, but as you know they don't. lol

So, you think i should get an ATI Radeon 8500???

i am ordering everything from http://www.scan.co.uk/

Since http://www.simply.co.uk/ charge like almost double the price, i have gond off of them and went to http://www.scan.co.uk/.

On http://www.scan.co.uk/

64Mb ATI Radeon 8500 TV Out/DVI Retail Version

this one costs £190.35

So, you think i should get this one?

And no, there isn't a 128MB version on Scan. :P

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well,

Right now, i have put in my Voodoo 5 5500 64MB Card for FreeSpace 1& 2 and AvP2, which of course, i have Excellent Framerates for the first time ever.

But, only those games work with the Voodoo 5, all the others either crash or have graphic corruptions which are unplayable.

If EVERYTHING worked with my Voodoo 5, i would keep it in, but as you know they don't. lol

So, you think i should get an ATI Radeon 8500???

i am ordering everything from http://www.scan.co.uk/

Since http://www.simply.co.uk/ charge like almost double the price, i have gond off of them and went to http://www.scan.co.uk/.

On http://www.scan.co.uk/

64Mb ATI Radeon 8500 TV Out/DVI Retail Version

this one costs £190.35

So, you think i should get this one?

And no, there isn't a 128MB version on Scan. :P

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Horley, Surrey, UK
Posts: 278

Since I own a Gainward GF4 Ti4400 I can probably give some input on it. Firstly the £299 price (ex V.A.T) is B.S. I was able to get mine for £260 (inc V.A.T) about 2 months ago.

[url=http://www.savastore.com/include/info.asp?st=CPRD&code=10229959]Here it is for £240[/url] @ http://www.watford.co.uk

Secondly I'd forget the processor, motherboard, RAM upgrade if I were you. If I were in your shoes my first priority would be to upgrade the video card. Also I think it's a better idea to get the more expensive but longer lasting cards than the "quick-fix" that has to be upgraded every year (e.g. a Geforce4 MX). My Voodoo 3 lasted from 1999 - 2002.

Anyways my specs:

1.0 Ghz Athlon,
256 MB's SD-RAM,
Abit KT133a motherboard ( )
Gainward GF4 Ti4400

FS2 is smooth (in 32 bit, with 2x antrisopic, 4x FSAA, 1024 x 768), as is Morrowind (1024 x 768, 2x FSAA, 2x Antrisopic filtering, 32 bit) and any other game I throw at it.

As for ATi, I've heard the stories but since I haven't actually owned an ATi card I can't really comment on it. Anyways after you've decided on a video card then see what you've got left over. If it's enough for a good motherboard, CPU and RAM go for it. Otherwise be patient, hold on to your money and save it up.

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Horley, Surrey, UK
Posts: 278

Since I own a Gainward GF4 Ti4400 I can probably give some input on it. Firstly the £299 price (ex V.A.T) is B.S. I was able to get mine for £260 (inc V.A.T) about 2 months ago.

[url=http://www.savastore.com/include/info.asp?st=CPRD&code=10229959]Here it is for £240[/url] @ http://www.watford.co.uk

Secondly I'd forget the processor, motherboard, RAM upgrade if I were you. If I were in your shoes my first priority would be to upgrade the video card. Also I think it's a better idea to get the more expensive but longer lasting cards than the "quick-fix" that has to be upgraded every year (e.g. a Geforce4 MX). My Voodoo 3 lasted from 1999 - 2002.

Anyways my specs:

1.0 Ghz Athlon,
256 MB's SD-RAM,
Abit KT133a motherboard ( )
Gainward GF4 Ti4400

FS2 is smooth (in 32 bit, with 2x antrisopic, 4x FSAA, 1024 x 768), as is Morrowind (1024 x 768, 2x FSAA, 2x Antrisopic filtering, 32 bit) and any other game I throw at it.

As for ATi, I've heard the stories but since I haven't actually owned an ATi card I can't really comment on it. Anyways after you've decided on a video card then see what you've got left over. If it's enough for a good motherboard, CPU and RAM go for it. Otherwise be patient, hold on to your money and save it up.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well, right now my machine is a piece of crap.

The only time i can play FS2 smooth @ 1024x768 is when i use my Voodoo 5 in 3DFX Glide Mode.

Well, this store is pretty good, but http://www.scan.co.uk/ is cheaper, but this new place has more stuff.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well, right now my machine is a piece of crap.

The only time i can play FS2 smooth @ 1024x768 is when i use my Voodoo 5 in 3DFX Glide Mode.

Well, this store is pretty good, but http://www.scan.co.uk/ is cheaper, but this new place has more stuff.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Israel
Posts: 144

What people are saying (And I agree with them) is that something is $#@!ed up with your computer, since it should run FS2 easily with everything at max, and that you should treat WinME like smallpox - Avoid at any cost!

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well, i am upgradeing everything soon.

at the end of this month i should be able to afford the CPU, Motherboard and Memory.

Then i will start saving up for the video Card.....even a Gainward GF4 Ti4200 would be better then what i have right now...

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

well, i am upgradeing everything soon.

at the end of this month i should be able to afford the CPU, Motherboard and Memory.

Then i will start saving up for the video Card.....even a Gainward GF4 Ti4200 would be better then what i have right now...

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 37

I don't think that 128MB in a Radeon 8500 is going to be money very well spent. Perhaps in an upper level Geforce 4 or the next generation of ATI cards (apparently released late this month or next) 128MB would be worthwhile.

We're all telling you to upgrade your video card now. Your own experience shows it to be true, as the V5 works great.

Your issue is almost starting to sound more like a software problem (ie you may need a fresh install of Windows.)

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 37

I don't think that 128MB in a Radeon 8500 is going to be money very well spent. Perhaps in an upper level Geforce 4 or the next generation of ATI cards (apparently released late this month or next) 128MB would be worthwhile.

We're all telling you to upgrade your video card now. Your own experience shows it to be true, as the V5 works great.

Your issue is almost starting to sound more like a software problem (ie you may need a fresh install of Windows.)

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

now that is not what is causing the problem.

i reinstall constantly. lol

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

now that is not what is causing the problem.

i reinstall constantly. lol

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 1379

well looky here we found the problem. re-install happy user

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

lol.

my motherboard sucks big time.

i have had this motherboard for nearly a year and i have had nothing but trouble.

The only reason why i am getting ok frame rates on some games is because i am using my Voodoo 5 Card, which only works on a select few games.

FreeSpace
FreeSpace 2
Aliens vs Predator
Aliens vs Predator 2

i can't play any other game due to Hardware incompatibility......which i know why, so i can't complain about that, so, should i get a Gainward GF4 Ti4200 or a ASUS GF4 Ti4400 ???????

this is VERY important.

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: London, UK
Posts: 682

lol.

my motherboard sucks big time.

i have had this motherboard for nearly a year and i have had nothing but trouble.

The only reason why i am getting ok frame rates on some games is because i am using my Voodoo 5 Card, which only works on a select few games.

FreeSpace
FreeSpace 2
Aliens vs Predator
Aliens vs Predator 2

i can't play any other game due to Hardware incompatibility......which i know why, so i can't complain about that, so, should i get a Gainward GF4 Ti4200 or a ASUS GF4 Ti4400 ???????

this is VERY important.

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Northam, W.A. Australia
Posts: 235

Your motherboard can't be any worse that mine, mine takes Slot 1 Pentium II's

Seriously don't fret over which nVidia-based card to get in a given speed class (GF4 Ti4200, GF4 Ti4600 etc) since, performance wise, at stock speed (I added this bit because Gainward ship and guarantee their cards overclocked as standard) pretty much all the same. Just buy whichever one you can get the cheapest.

__________________
"Don't stop, baby, dreamin'"
"Don't stop, baby, lovin'"
"Don't stop, babe, believin'"
Wasurenaide...
"Don't stop, baby, dreamin'"
"Don't stop, baby, lovin'"
"Don't stop, babe, believin'"
...Watashi ga iru koto o.
Itsudatte soba ni iru yo.

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Northam, W.A. Australia
Posts: 235

Your motherboard can't be any worse that mine, mine takes Slot 1 Pentium II's

Seriously don't fret over which nVidia-based card to get in a given speed class (GF4 Ti4200, GF4 Ti4600 etc) since, performance wise, at stock speed (I added this bit because Gainward ship and guarantee their cards overclocked as standard) pretty much all the same. Just buy whichever one you can get the cheapest.

__________________
"Don't stop, baby, dreamin'"
"Don't stop, baby, lovin'"
"Don't stop, babe, believin'"
Wasurenaide...
"Don't stop, baby, dreamin'"
"Don't stop, baby, lovin'"
"Don't stop, babe, believin'"
...Watashi ga iru koto o.
Itsudatte soba ni iru yo.

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