Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Downton, Diego Garcia, BIOT
Posts: 421

hey, i saw this over in united space and thought it was so kickass that i had to bring it over here: [url="http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/FS/fs000.htm"]http://www.lares.dti.ne.jp/~hamano/FS/fs000.htm[/url]

oops,
i am talking about the bottom picture (sorry about the double post)

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:

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Originally posted by Charger:
well, to a certain extent, i agree, but you must include isreal in your exclusion list. their air force is the best in the world, and that includes the us...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

cant we got back to the topic?!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

Now F14's are probably not really a match at all for F15's and 16's in dogfights. Despite the fact that the F14 is a good dogfighter, it is an aging design that doesn't perform as well as the other two. The F18's are a much better platform and the F18E's are awesome. Israeli Airforce is indeed quite good. Canada's airforce is well trained as well, about on par with American units believe it or not (proof is in the pudding at Cold Lake exercises).

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Pottsboro, TX USA
Posts: 289

LMAO!!! They killed us with our own Airplanes!!!!!!!!! hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
The F-15 and F-16 are both of American Design and were sold to the Isrealies. Plus the F-14 is going into retirement, and the Hornet will soon follow in the next decade. I'd like to see them dogfight with the F-22. It is kinda hard to hit something that is the size of a duck on your radar, and is capable of a 90 degree turn in mid-air. Or I'd like to see them fight the SU-39. I've never seen a fighter that could do back-flips in mid-air. I will have to give the Russians credit for that one.

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What? I'm not crazy! But the rest of you are!

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Downton, Diego Garcia, BIOT
Posts: 421

i beg your pardon gentlemen, but the f14 is most certainly not being retired! when a us navy f14 leaves service it has either fallen completly and totally to peices, or it has crashed. the aircraft are old. the missile it was designed to carry is old. in fact, when you see a pheonix missile on an f14, it is most likely 15 years old. just remember thoug, that 15 year old missile cannot be matched by anything today. it had a range of over 100 nuaghtical miles and reaches a cruising speed of mach five before tipping over. with the miniuturization of electronics, the f14 can now carry bombs. in fact, the only thing in the usn inventory that can carry more than the f14's 14,500 lbs of bombs is the now retired a6 intruder witch could carry nine tons of the deck.
the only reason that aircraft is still in servise is because the us government wont pay for a replacement for this aircraft.
oh, and before anybody suggests it, you cannot adapt a landbased aircraft for use on a us aricraft carrier with out allowing for these design constraints in the airframe design.

as for the isrealis being the kings of the closein dogfight, of course, look at the size of their country, you can fly across it in less than fifteen minutes at its widest point, any dogfight over the country is a closein dogfight.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Pottsboro, TX USA
Posts: 289

I believe the F-22 can carry the Pheonix also, if I recall right?

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What? I'm not crazy! But the rest of you are!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

Easily.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Downton, Diego Garcia, BIOT
Posts: 421

no the f22 cannot carry the pheonix. it is a one of a kind weapons system that rewuires the radar that only the f14 carries. though the capability to launch using steering instructions provided by the camera system under the nose might be possible. theoretically, and this is very theororetical, the F/A18E/F could carry two of these missiles off of the deck and have the radar capability to fire it, but knowone has ever heard of this being atempted, afterall, we still have f14's.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

my god
create another topic about this!
how can a Ion cannon in FS2 start into a debate on military hardware

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

argh- :MAD: :MAD:

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Downton, Diego Garcia, BIOT
Posts: 421

hey, all this started with the comment that someone didn't like the shapes of the turrets for use on his sleek new cap ship, or something like that.
besides, isn't this an interesting line of conversation?
also, arent most topics on this bullitten board system about military hardware of some type

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 369

i shall quote from derelect: "Ahem"
"it's not what you fly, it's how you fly it"

and as i recall, the US were still using P-51D's in korea against mig-5's (or some other russian jet) and winning!

seriously

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

I'm pretty sure those P-51's, although well piloted, were not a match at all for the Mig-15's. There was a reason for the F-86 Sabre and that was it.

F-14's are definately being retired. They are now extremely old and outdated aircraft and the Pheonix's capabilities, although outstanding, don't really fit into the bigger picture anymore.

The F-18E/F is far more economical in the long run for the USN because it fufills the roles of several aircraft, its new systems are designed to be easily replaced and diagnosed, and the lower radar profiles make the plane quite a bit more sneaky than the F-14.

My only question is what the A-6 was replaced with. The F-18E/F, although multi-role, is definately not the heavy bomber that the A-6 was.

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Belleville, IL, USA
Posts: 760

"how can a Ion cannon in FS2 start into a debate on military hardware"

you haven't been in this comunity long, have you

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I was here then I wasn't, now I'm dead

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Pottsboro, TX USA
Posts: 289

K, the A-6E was replaced with the all the Wild Weasel Aircraft because the A-6E had no offensive weapons.

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What? I'm not crazy! But the rest of you are!

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Pottsboro, TX USA
Posts: 289

BTW, I have me weapons TBL pack almost done. Just a few more little tweaks and it will be done.

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What? I'm not crazy! But the rest of you are!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

The the Prowler wasn't replaced was it?

The Intruder was the bomber, the Prowler the EM warfare. I'm asking about the bomber.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Downton, Diego Garcia, BIOT
Posts: 421

first, the f14 is not being retired, i say again, the f14 is not being retired.

the aircraft are simply getting to the point at witch the airframes can no longer be considered structurally sound by anyones definition.

second, there is no replacement for the a6 intruder, congress declined to either buy the g model or upgrade the fleet to the g model while giving them a structural refurbishment. the closest thing to being a replacement to the a6 intruder is the f14, while it can't carry the 9 tons that the a6 can, amaizingly it can carry 7 and a 1/4 tons into the air, and its large size and variable geometry wings, it can become a very stable bombing platform with a few simple tweaks to the the wing control software.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 369

The F-14 is sort of getting like australia's aging f-111 fighter's most of them have been in use since vietnam and they're still in use

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