Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:

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Originally posted by Lady Rose


Actually no, Corvette cant kill Sathanas from rear, Sathanas has one rear beam to deal smaller ships.

I doubt Sathanas class was never meant to be on battle ship, more likely it was desing for Supernova attack, it has defence means but its not a warship.

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So it just HAPPENED to have enough firepower to erase any race?

I doubt it.

I think we need ot stop questioning the Shivans...

(before they assume too much...)

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Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Lady Rose


Actually no, Corvette cant kill Sathanas from rear, Sathanas has one rear beam to deal smaller ships.

I doubt Sathanas class was never meant to be on battle ship, more likely it was desing for Supernova attack, it has defence means but its not a warship.

---

So it just HAPPENED to have enough firepower to erase any race?

I doubt it.

I think we need ot stop questioning the Shivans...

(before they assume too much...)

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Registered: Dec 2002
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That raises another point. Was the original Sathanas designed to be a one ship killing machine like the Lucifer and it got outgunned? Or was it just one that the Shivans had nearby and it went ahead while the rest of them moved into position?

I suppose it's a question of space vs. industry. Do the Shivans control such a huge amount of space that it took so much time to get the Sathanas fleet into position or is their industrial capacity so large that they just whipped up a fleet on demand?

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Registered: Dec 2002
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That raises another point. Was the original Sathanas designed to be a one ship killing machine like the Lucifer and it got outgunned? Or was it just one that the Shivans had nearby and it went ahead while the rest of them moved into position?

I suppose it's a question of space vs. industry. Do the Shivans control such a huge amount of space that it took so much time to get the Sathanas fleet into position or is their industrial capacity so large that they just whipped up a fleet on demand?

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Registered: Jun 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Well, I doubt that even the Shivans could build a juggernaut that quickly (the number of juggernauts under simultaneous construction is irrelevant), so I would think that these Sathanes were already extant and gathered from across Shivan space. But the fact that they were willing to throw away so many juggernauts does bespeak a vast industrial capacity.

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Just so everyone knows...in High Noon, the Colossus was using its maximum energy output (ie. LRBGreen's). If you use the standard default Colossus, it can't even attempt to do what it did. This is balance...if the Colossus was armed like that all the time the Feint! Parry! Riposte! mission would have been over the moment the Colossus jumped in and a single blast of beams would have taken out Admiral Koth.

In the High Noon case, if the Sathanas was not disarmed (in terms of main beams), the Colossus would have lost that battle. No Terran vessel even comes close to the firepower of the Sathanas in a direct one on one engagement. However, the Colossus was the best direct challenge to the Sathanas as we see that in a couple of minutes of engagement the Colossus did take the Sathanas down.

When the Colossus was destroyed, it had already sustained damage from SEVERAL engagements that had presumably already taken place, engaged another Shivan Destroyer which launched an attack, and used some of its fighter and bomber wings (two wings are launched, Perseus wing and Boanerges wing) to engage cruisers at the node.

With Shivan vessels everywhere, I bet a good number of other craft were fighting in all areas in Capella.

So the Colossus was doomed...one way or another.

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Just so everyone knows...in High Noon, the Colossus was using its maximum energy output (ie. LRBGreen's). If you use the standard default Colossus, it can't even attempt to do what it did. This is balance...if the Colossus was armed like that all the time the Feint! Parry! Riposte! mission would have been over the moment the Colossus jumped in and a single blast of beams would have taken out Admiral Koth.

In the High Noon case, if the Sathanas was not disarmed (in terms of main beams), the Colossus would have lost that battle. No Terran vessel even comes close to the firepower of the Sathanas in a direct one on one engagement. However, the Colossus was the best direct challenge to the Sathanas as we see that in a couple of minutes of engagement the Colossus did take the Sathanas down.

When the Colossus was destroyed, it had already sustained damage from SEVERAL engagements that had presumably already taken place, engaged another Shivan Destroyer which launched an attack, and used some of its fighter and bomber wings (two wings are launched, Perseus wing and Boanerges wing) to engage cruisers at the node.

With Shivan vessels everywhere, I bet a good number of other craft were fighting in all areas in Capella.

So the Colossus was doomed...one way or another.

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Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:

---

Originally posted by n4s7yn4pk1n
[B]So it just HAPPENED to have enough firepower to erase any race?

---

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Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:

---

Originally posted by n4s7yn4pk1n
[B]So it just HAPPENED to have enough firepower to erase any race?

---

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I bet if they built the Colossus ground-up as a gigantic corvette, that requires a dedicated space-fighter carrier support cruiser, the Colossus would've been a lot more effective. Trying to be everything at once just means that it'll suck at everything in the end.

Then again, if the Colossus was more effective than it was, we wouldn't get to see it blow up.

@Lady Rose
For all we know, the Shivans may just be that one race that is superior to everyone and doesn't really care about that, just wants to blow everyone else up.

@Icefire
Yeah, Colossus was pretty doomed from the moment its captain decided that blocking the beams of a sathanas for 10 whole seconds more will mean anything. It should've jumped out at that point to get repairs done on the fighterbay. Then it can go back to the front lines and make an even greater difference with the still-functional beams and newly-available fighters and bombers.
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I bet if they built the Colossus ground-up as a gigantic corvette, that requires a dedicated space-fighter carrier support cruiser, the Colossus would've been a lot more effective. Trying to be everything at once just means that it'll suck at everything in the end.

Then again, if the Colossus was more effective than it was, we wouldn't get to see it blow up.

@Lady Rose
For all we know, the Shivans may just be that one race that is superior to everyone and doesn't really care about that, just wants to blow everyone else up.

@Icefire
Yeah, Colossus was pretty doomed from the moment its captain decided that blocking the beams of a sathanas for 10 whole seconds more will mean anything. It should've jumped out at that point to get repairs done on the fighterbay. Then it can go back to the front lines and make an even greater difference with the still-functional beams and newly-available fighters and bombers.
Playing the hero is only good if you survive.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
For all we know, the Shivans may just be that one race that is superior to everyone and doesn't really care about that, just wants to blow everyone else up.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
For all we know, the Shivans may just be that one race that is superior to everyone and doesn't really care about that, just wants to blow everyone else up.

---

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We don't even know the age of the Shivans. For all we know, the Sathanas Fleet might just be the toys of a Shivan kid.

Even the "Shivan Specimens" we've captured aren't conclusively proven to be _the_ Shivans.

We simply don't know much beyond that they always kick our butts badly.

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Registered: Oct 2002
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We don't even know the age of the Shivans. For all we know, the Sathanas Fleet might just be the toys of a Shivan kid.

Even the "Shivan Specimens" we've captured aren't conclusively proven to be _the_ Shivans.

We simply don't know much beyond that they always kick our butts badly.

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Registered: Nov 2001
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Assuming you're right, then why didn't Shivans kick GTVA ass on first Great War? And even if you would be right it doesn't mean there couldn't be stronger race.

Plus thats quite big assumption dont you think?

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Assuming you're right, then why didn't Shivans kick GTVA ass on first Great War? And even if you would be right it doesn't mean there couldn't be stronger race.

Plus thats quite big assumption dont you think?

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Registered: Oct 2002
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You know, I'm fairly certain that the Terrans and Vasudans were getting their butts handed back to them during the Great War. Practically the entire fleet was decimated (and will be again in FS2) and the Lucifer was only stopped because of the subspace battle which turned its shields off and that the Lucifer has the weakness in its reactor systems (which was discovered by Alpha1's sensor sweep and also courtesty of Alpha1 that the Lucifer actually got its reactors blown ).

If the Shivans had happened to have a Ravanna in that area instead of a Lucifer, we'd never have been able to kill it. Remember, it was estimated that at least 100 Harbingers would be needed to crack the Lucifer (before the reactor weakness) and the Ravanna is more heavily armoured than the Lucifer. We also didn't have Helios and beam weapons.

The thing about being toys of a Shivan kid is pretty farfetched tho, hehe.

We do know the Shivans are older than the Ancients and that they had beam weapons back then already.

Last edited by ChronoReverse on 03-25-2003 at 05:54 AM

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You know, I'm fairly certain that the Terrans and Vasudans were getting their butts handed back to them during the Great War. Practically the entire fleet was decimated (and will be again in FS2) and the Lucifer was only stopped because of the subspace battle which turned its shields off and that the Lucifer has the weakness in its reactor systems (which was discovered by Alpha1's sensor sweep and also courtesty of Alpha1 that the Lucifer actually got its reactors blown ).

If the Shivans had happened to have a Ravanna in that area instead of a Lucifer, we'd never have been able to kill it. Remember, it was estimated that at least 100 Harbingers would be needed to crack the Lucifer (before the reactor weakness) and the Ravanna is more heavily armoured than the Lucifer. We also didn't have Helios and beam weapons.

The thing about being toys of a Shivan kid is pretty farfetched tho, hehe.

We do know the Shivans are older than the Ancients and that they had beam weapons back then already.

Last edited by ChronoReverse on 03-25-2003 at 05:54 AM

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Registered: Nov 2001
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Getting butts kicked, just to ask why not just all the way killing with couple Sathanas (assuming they had those back then). When you go war you'll go out with all might.

Ancients also had beams and Shivans didn't fool around with them. On FS2 Shivans really didn't have much intrest on GTVA (as they had on FS1), they concentrated on Capella sun not to GTVA.

Assuming you're right Shivans would have squashed GTVA like a mere bug, so why they wouldn't just do it?

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