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OK, information overload on the First Ones for those who want it:

Lorien - The original First One once lived on Z'Ha'Dum and was apparently oblivious to all that went on in the galaxy around him. The Shadows were happy with his presence there giving them a feeling of protection (nobody would attack THE First One) and the Vorlons were happy with this, knowing that he would eventually save Sheridan. In reality Lorien used Z'Ha'Dum as a place to monitor the rest of the galaxy in relative isolation until he was needed again (not to mention that Z'Ha'Dum was Lorien's race's original homeworld and the Shadows had merely colonised it because of Lorien's presence. His race is immortal in terms of never feeling the effects of aging and he has many special powers such as telepathy, telekinesis, teleprojection but despite this the remaining members of his race eventually all died due to injury and/or disease. He left the galaxy for the rim with the remaining First Ones in 2261 to leave the way ahead clear for the younger races to choose their own fates and not be disturbed by ancient beings that cared little for the fate of anyone else.

The Walkers of Sigma 957 - The Walkers inhabit a realm of space near Sigma 957 where there is a tear in the fabric of reality that leads to another kind of space - "otherspace". This otherspace is beyond the comprehension of the younger races and even the Walkers cannot spend long at a time there. The Walkers have been great explorers in the past and were the first to explore the galaxy and map its contents. They were the first to discover hyperspace and exploration and discovery was all that interested them. They were also the first to travel beyond the rim but returned back to their otherspace "home". However, every time they arrived home again they found the galaxy changed and could not cope with this constant unfamiliar and ongoing change to their home. Rather than do something about this, they saw other races as being far too tightly integrated into the changing fabric of the galaxy and felt it easier to withdraw through various rifts to otherspace where all remained relatively constant. Only the combination of Ivanova's (incorrect) comparison of the Walkers to the hated Vorlons (architects of the changing galaxy along with the Shadows) and the intervention of Lorien pursuaded them to make one final intervention in the galaxy before leaving it behind.

The Kirishiac Lords - The Kirishiac are the youngest of the First Ones and were once the most numerous. They once had a philosophy similar to the Shadows and went to war with many of the First Ones destroying many and driving others out beyond the rim, leaving only the most ancient and powerful First Ones behind. Growing tired of their continued domination they wanted to put an end to the conflicts of the galaxy and waged a terrible but brief war on the remaining First Ones and were soundly defeated. Asking Lorien to pass judgement on the Kirishiac, he refused and instead withdrew to Z'Ha'Dum. Ashamed and defeated, most of the Kirishiac passed beyond the rim to look for pastures new. The remaining Kirishiac observed to continuing Vorlon-Shadow battles through the millennia and finally saw that a conclusion was near and even more surprisingly (to themselves) that they actually cared about the outcome. Lorien required little pursuasion to bring the final Lordship out of hiding and with the war finished the Kirishiac found that they had no connections left with the galaxy that remained so passed beyond the rim with Lorien.

The Triad - The Triad contains some of the oldest living creatures in the galaxy, with only three of them existing in the time of the final Shadow War. The three in the Triad were not always so closely linked together, in the beginning seeing the universe through three totally different philosophies. One saw the universe as an infinite playground to be enjoyed as he wished, with no other purpose. The second saw the universe not only as chaos and order but both of these simply being different sides of the same coin, with struggle towards either eventually self-defeating. The third saw the universe through imaginitive eyes and revelled in the creation of new things and new experiences - perhaps the ultimate artist. For a time the three separated, realising that their incompatible philosophies were driving them toward collision and their ultimate destruction. Even seeking advice from Lorien as to how they could remain together resulted in him encouraging them to separate as in separation could be born togetherness. After a great deal of time the three all realised that something was missing and reunited, realising that no single view of the universe was necessarily correct, all merely different perspectives on the same issue. They travelled the galaxy searching for new knowledge and new experiences, happy that the other races continued to create new thoughts and actions. However eventually the Vorlon-Shadow conflict kept repeating the same old themes and the Triad wanted to intervene. Lorien provided the perfect opportunity to do so and after leaving the younger races to make their own, new choices they left with the other First Ones.

The Torvalus Spectators - The Spectators were among the first to become bored with events in the galaxy and as such had to find new ways to amuse themselves. In due course most left beyond the rim in search of new experiences, leaving few behind. The only activity left that excited the remaining Spectators was gambling - gambling on anything from events in a single battle to betting on how a planet's life would evolve over many millions of years. They had bets on almost every race in the galaxy but the greatest of these was on the outcome of the Shadow War, with predicted outcomes such as one side or the other winning, Lorien ending it all, the war continuing for ever, etc. all being placed. They were content until Babylon 4 was sent back in time - the first thing to truely surprise them in millions of years! Later Sheridan was saved by Lorien, another shocking event but worse was the Vorlon and Shadow destruction of entire civilisations - breaking all of the Spectators' rules about interference with their bets. For the first time in their history they decided to take part in the affairs of the universe and contacted Lorien to put paid to the Vorlon and Shadow interference. After the final battle, the Spectators realised that they had broken their own cardinal rule about not interfering with the galaxy and so left it in shame, looking for something more than their endless wagers to keep them amused.

The Mindriders - The Mindriders were the most spiritual of the First Ones and this was combined with a common question about what their purpose in the universe was. Eventually they found a way of evolving beyond their physical bodies but even this was insufficient to explain their existence. Their answer was that in being immortal they never experienced the mystery of being mortal and so so they moved from world to world, spending millennia at each, placing their life essences in newly born creatures and living with them for part of their lives. They did this with absolutely no interference with the actions of the creatures and chronicled all of the experiences that they had. When the Shadow War started destroying entire cultures the Mindriders could not bear the thought that they might miss the chance to find the ultimate answer if the race that held the key was destroyed. It was for this reason that they took up Lorien's offer to help end the Shadow War (even though they doubted that his plan would work). After the war, Lorien convinced the Mindriders that they could only find the answers they were looking for by living their own lives, not the lives of others and so they continued their quest with Lorien, believing that they had learned all that there was to be learned from the younger races, and passed beyond the rim.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Triggy
OK, information overload on the First Ones for those who want it:

Lorien - The original First One once lived on Z'Ha'Dum and was apparently oblivious to all that went on in the galaxy around him. The Shadows were happy with his presence there giving them a feeling of protection (nobody would attack THE First One) and the Vorlons were happy with this, knowing that he would eventually save Sheridan. In reality Lorien <snip>

</snip> with Lorien, believing that they had learned all that there was to be learned from the younger races, and passed beyond the rim.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Triggy
OK, information overload on the First Ones for those who want it:

Lorien - The original First One once lived on Z'Ha'Dum and was apparently oblivious to all that went on in the galaxy around him. The Shadows were happy with his presence there giving them a feeling of protection (nobody would attack THE First One) and the Vorlons were happy with this, knowing that he would eventually save Sheridan. In reality Lorien <snip>

</snip> with Lorien, believing that they had learned all that there was to be learned from the younger races, and passed beyond the rim.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grey Area
Where did this info come from?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Grey Area
Where did this info come from?

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Most probably Agents of Gaming??yes

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Sigma's right - and that makes it semi-canon as far as I'm concerned and a hell of a lot more than you're going to get from anywhere else.

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Sigma's right - and that makes it semi-canon as far as I'm concerned and a hell of a lot more than you're going to get from anywhere else.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Triggy
Lorien - The original First One once lived on Z'Ha'Dum
...
and the Vorlons were happy with this, knowing that he would eventually save Sheridan.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Triggy
Lorien - The original First One once lived on Z'Ha'Dum
...
and the Vorlons were happy with this, knowing that he would eventually save Sheridan.

---

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Out of interest, I've checked and the foreword to the AoG B5W Rules Compendium is written by JMS himself who regards the information inside canonical. I know he didn't write much of it but he has read it all and occasionally made corrections where there would have been contradictions.

The Vorlons being "happy with the situation" is my own paraphrasing and interpretation directly from the show where Kosh knows that Sheridan will die on Z'Ha'Dum and confirmed by Lorien's later discussion with the command staff of B5 further stating that Kosh almost certainly knew about Lorien's presence on Z'Ha'Dum. The Vorlons chose to do nothing to stop Sheridan's plan when they had ample opportunity to stop Sheridan in advance (e.g. by killing him in Interludes and Examinations). This is implicit that they were happy for Sheridan to go to Z'Ha'Dum and for all of the consequences - Kosh even relayed Sheridan's requests to the Vorlon homeworld and received a small fleet to engage the Shadows, a definite sign that the Vorlons back home supported Kosh's choices and actions.

Sheridan's opening of an unexpected door could simply be referring their surprise at his survival of the events on Z'Ha'Dum or it could be that the Vorlons were hiding that they knew what would happen all along, either way, Kosh seemed confident that Sheridan would die on Z'Ha'Dum, that he would have a fragment of himself in Sheridan and that Lorien would be there (perhaps to save Sheridan, perhaps not).

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Out of interest, I've checked and the foreword to the AoG B5W Rules Compendium is written by JMS himself who regards the information inside canonical. I know he didn't write much of it but he has read it all and occasionally made corrections where there would have been contradictions.

The Vorlons being "happy with the situation" is my own paraphrasing and interpretation directly from the show where Kosh knows that Sheridan will die on Z'Ha'Dum and confirmed by Lorien's later discussion with the command staff of B5 further stating that Kosh almost certainly knew about Lorien's presence on Z'Ha'Dum. The Vorlons chose to do nothing to stop Sheridan's plan when they had ample opportunity to stop Sheridan in advance (e.g. by killing him in Interludes and Examinations). This is implicit that they were happy for Sheridan to go to Z'Ha'Dum and for all of the consequences - Kosh even relayed Sheridan's requests to the Vorlon homeworld and received a small fleet to engage the Shadows, a definite sign that the Vorlons back home supported Kosh's choices and actions.

Sheridan's opening of an unexpected door could simply be referring their surprise at his survival of the events on Z'Ha'Dum or it could be that the Vorlons were hiding that they knew what would happen all along, either way, Kosh seemed confident that Sheridan would die on Z'Ha'Dum, that he would have a fragment of himself in Sheridan and that Lorien would be there (perhaps to save Sheridan, perhaps not).

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Triggy
Out of interest, I've checked and the foreword to the AoG B5W Rules Compendium is written by JMS himself who regards the information inside canonical. I know he didn't write much of it but he has read it all and occasionally made corrections where there would have been contradictions.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Triggy
Out of interest, I've checked and the foreword to the AoG B5W Rules Compendium is written by JMS himself who regards the information inside canonical. I know he didn't write much of it but he has read it all and occasionally made corrections where there would have been contradictions.

---

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Or the "opening the door" could also mean that since Za'Ha"Dum was attacked by a younger race then all planets can now be attack,it was this action could probably allowed the vorlons to show some muscle with the pk and openly attack shadow interest.This is of course just my thoughts though

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Or the "opening the door" could also mean that since Za'Ha"Dum was attacked by a younger race then all planets can now be attack,it was this action could probably allowed the vorlons to show some muscle with the pk and openly attack shadow interest.This is of course just my thoughts though

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sigma957
Or the "opening the door" could also mean that since Za'Ha"Dum was attacked by a younger race then all planets can now be attack,it was this action could probably allowed the vorlons to show some muscle with the pk and openly attack shadow interest.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sigma957
Or the "opening the door" could also mean that since Za'Ha"Dum was attacked by a younger race then all planets can now be attack,it was this action could probably allowed the vorlons to show some muscle with the pk and openly attack shadow interest.

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jokoto
I don't think they would have built up a fleet without a plan and only used it after something unforeseeable occurred.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jokoto
I don't think they would have built up a fleet without a plan and only used it after something unforeseeable occurred.

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