Registered: Dec 2001
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Yea, I don't know if it was an IBM, but the Nazis did have some very sophisticated punch card computers. They used them to keep track of data on their victims. Meticulous record keepers. I'll bet they were kicking themslves for that on the way to the gallows at Nuremberg.


Bush (in Marvin Martian voice): I'm going to blow up the Earth.

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haderak makes a good point about coporations. They need to be policed and controlled, otherwise control is what they will take.

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I'd advise anyone interested in this to check out: http://adbusters.org/

They have some pretty good stuff. Haderak, you do make a point that is often overlooked. Just because someone is skeptical of capitalism, does not mean that they automatically embrace communism, or anarchism.

I don't like the pollution the power comapny makes, but I don't think living in a cave is a viable solution. I don't like the fact that the US government spends money on corporate bailouts, while it's citizens go hungry, but I still pay taxes. I don't agree with the draft, but I still registered for selective service. I don't think my university should accept money from the CIA, but I'm not protesting CIA director Tenet speaking at commencement.

Wait a minute, I AM doing the last one. It should be interesting.

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I'd advise anyone interested in this to check out: http://adbusters.org/

They have some pretty good stuff. Haderak, you do make a point that is often overlooked. Just because someone is skeptical of capitalism, does not mean that they automatically embrace communism, or anarchism.

I don't like the pollution the power comapny makes, but I don't think living in a cave is a viable solution. I don't like the fact that the US government spends money on corporate bailouts, while it's citizens go hungry, but I still pay taxes. I don't agree with the draft, but I still registered for selective service. I don't think my university should accept money from the CIA, but I'm not protesting CIA director Tenet speaking at commencement.

Wait a minute, I AM doing the last one. It should be interesting.

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Ummm. No. The enigma cypher machines were nothing more than glorified typewriters with a few extra wheels inbetween the keyboard and the hammer with letters on them to encode them ... the computers were based on Polish machines to crack the Enigma key.

Almost but not quite.

And yes, "War is the mother of all invention" or something ... it's more or less true. Microwaves, believe it or not, came out of microwave-range radar in WWII, tracking U-boats on a radar band their radar detectors (this was late in the war, so figure 1944 onward, roughly) couldn't pick up...they noticed it made things hot, too...and there you go.

Silly putty was an attempt to create an artificial rubber by Allied scientists to combat the rubber shortage...

There's a whole book of things on how war created paper clips (well, or something like it) and stuff like that, I forget what it's called, but it's a wonderful read.

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Ummm. No. The enigma cypher machines were nothing more than glorified typewriters with a few extra wheels inbetween the keyboard and the hammer with letters on them to encode them ... the computers were based on Polish machines to crack the Enigma key.

Almost but not quite.

And yes, "War is the mother of all invention" or something ... it's more or less true. Microwaves, believe it or not, came out of microwave-range radar in WWII, tracking U-boats on a radar band their radar detectors (this was late in the war, so figure 1944 onward, roughly) couldn't pick up...they noticed it made things hot, too...and there you go.

Silly putty was an attempt to create an artificial rubber by Allied scientists to combat the rubber shortage...

There's a whole book of things on how war created paper clips (well, or something like it) and stuff like that, I forget what it's called, but it's a wonderful read.

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I'm not talking about the "Enigma," I was refering to the table sized punch card machine on display at the Holocaust Museum, in Washington DC. And we couldn't crack the enigma code, until we acctually got our hand on one of them. Japanese code on the other hand...well, Coral Sea, Midway, shooting down Yamamoto.

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I'm not talking about the "Enigma," I was refering to the table sized punch card machine on display at the Holocaust Museum, in Washington DC. And we couldn't crack the enigma code, until we acctually got our hand on one of them. Japanese code on the other hand...well, Coral Sea, Midway, shooting down Yamamoto.

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I'm sure they could have figured out the code eventually, but it was easier to capture some of the devices without the Germans noticing than to try and crack it.

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I'm sure they could have figured out the code eventually, but it was easier to capture some of the devices without the Germans noticing than to try and crack it.

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Acually the Germans did notice. It cost them a U-boat. U 571 was forced to the surface while attacking a convoy, the crew was unable to scuttle it before it was captured. No, it was nothing like that horrible movie that came out a couple years ago.

But back to the topic of EA's stupidity. I think Londo said it best in ITB, "Ah, arrogence and stupidity in the same package. How efficient of you."

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Acually the Germans did notice. It cost them a U-boat. U 571 was forced to the surface while attacking a convoy, the crew was unable to scuttle it before it was captured. No, it was nothing like that horrible movie that came out a couple years ago.

But back to the topic of EA's stupidity. I think Londo said it best in ITB, "Ah, arrogence and stupidity in the same package. How efficient of you."

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Registered: Feb 2001
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There is a saying- Humans are most inventive when they are destructive....

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Yes, but thankfully destructive things can also be constructive things. Nuclear bombs are devastating, nuclear power keeps the country lit. Although there's the whole nuclear waste aspect....

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Yes, but thankfully destructive things can also be constructive things. Nuclear bombs are devastating, nuclear power keeps the country lit. Although there's the whole nuclear waste aspect....

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I dunno about you, but it's beer that keeps me lit.

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I dunno about you, but it's beer that keeps me lit.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by FlakBait
Acually the Germans did notice. It cost them a U-boat. U 571 was forced to the surface while attacking a convoy, the crew was unable to scuttle it before it was captured. No, it was nothing like that horrible movie that came out a couple years ago.

---

And it wasn't U-571.
from here: http://www.smh-hq.org/gazette/features/u571.html

quote:

---

The historical events alluded to in the film's closing dedication Â_ the seizure of an Enigma from "U-110" in May 1941, the retrieval of key documents from "U-559" in September 1942, and the capture of "U-505" at sea in June 1944 Â_ are ably described in such works as David Kahn's Seizing the Enigma: The Race to Break the German U-Boat Codes, 1939-1943 (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1991), and F. H. Hinsley et al., British Intelligence in the Second World War, Vols. I-II (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1979-81).

---

As far as I know, the real U-571 was just sunk...no fancy boarding required

As for JN-25 being cracked, that was in part due to how the code worked and how operators were being a little lazy, letting the Americans crack it easier (if unintentionally) ... if you want some more detail on that I could go into it, but keep in mind the Americans got dealt a very nice hand on cracking that one - and then they put a lot of sweat and effort into it.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by FlakBait
Acually the Germans did notice. It cost them a U-boat. U 571 was forced to the surface while attacking a convoy, the crew was unable to scuttle it before it was captured. No, it was nothing like that horrible movie that came out a couple years ago.

---

And it wasn't U-571.
from here: http://www.smh-hq.org/gazette/features/u571.html

quote:

---

The historical events alluded to in the film's closing dedication ÂÂ_ the seizure of an Enigma from "U-110" in May 1941, the retrieval of key documents from "U-559" in September 1942, and the capture of "U-505" at sea in June 1944 ÂÂ_ are ably described in such works as David Kahn's Seizing the Enigma: The Race to Break the German U-Boat Codes, 1939-1943 (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1991), and F. H. Hinsley et al., British Intelligence in the Second World War, Vols. I-II (New York: Cambridge University Press, 1979-81).

---

As far as I know, the real U-571 was just sunk...no fancy boarding required

As for JN-25 being cracked, that was in part due to how the code worked and how operators were being a little lazy, letting the Americans crack it easier (if unintentionally) ... if you want some more detail on that I could go into it, but keep in mind the Americans got dealt a very nice hand on cracking that one - and then they put a lot of sweat and effort into it.

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Ok you got me there. But there was one that was captured. U -505. It's on display in Chicago.
http://www.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/U505home.html
http://www.lawbuzz.com/tyranny/u571/u571_ch10.htm

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