Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

quote:

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Originally posted by Cepheid
There is a far different size gap between a Zero and a carrier than there is between a Seraphim and a Hecate.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 1216

Agreed.

It should also be pointed out that you can fashion a convincing capship defence mission using lots of fighters, but not many at a time. By sending in waves of fighters as well as bombers it's possible to eliminate enough defenders to keep launching reinforcements, thus giving the impression of a big, bloody battle and still keeping the challenge high. That's basically what I tend to do, because it avoids the problem of having too many ships on-screen at once on either side.

That said, I have some suitably large fighter and bomber combats planned for the missions I have set up - one featuring, so far, five wings defending against waves of bomber attack. You can bet that they're big waves.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
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Absolutely not. We're talking about a vehicle over 2 kilometers long being impacted by an object perhaps 15 meters long. The difference in mass and inertia is simply immense. Espacially since a destoyer has enough armor to hold off a beam cannon. Even loaded with bombs, it is unlike the destroyer would even be crippled.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
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And there's a lot more flight deck space on a Hecate than there was on the Enterprise. So if there is debris, fighters can work their way around it.

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 97

Also of note the RN ships of the pacific fleet (yes Britain was in WW2!!) were to a great extent immune to the dive bombers and kamakazi fighters of the Japanese, of note was the British Carrier Illustrious taking 3 direct kamakazi hits to the flightdeck, none of which penetrated the stell amour plating.

The power of air power in ww2 is in effect over rated and a biased opinion is given simply because the makeup of forces arrayed was wrong. The Bizmark was a great ship, it was however not a hulking great big top of the line battle ship, it was closer to a heavy cruiser then a battleship, which is what the hood was. The Rodney (Britains latest battleship deployed in 1939, or any of the new US Battlesips) could have destroyed the bizmark one on one.

The Yamato was sunk because budget cuts meant that it had 2nd hand 15inch cruiser turrets with cruiser amour, which was easly penetrated by dive bombers.

Air power shouldnt have been as effective as it was, but it was so effective because the admirals who faced each other either obsessed about it or ignored it. Those who ignored it paid the price by making easly avoidable errors (German's, no carriers aa weapons made to track fast fighters or higher level bombers no inbetween setting) and those who embraced did so at the cost of a more balanced fighting force (Japanese did not have enough destroyers or heavy cruisers to cover their battleships and carriers)

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

But who had the most effective air forces?

MUAAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Finland! Ya jerks! MUAHAHAHAHA!

We dropped the most enemy fighters and bombers when compared to the amount of fighters we had then!

Our land forces were pretty good too... minimal losses compared to those heavy losses on enemy side.

Too bad we didn't really have naval fleet...

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

Air power was (and is) so powerful because it's a different medium. In space, where everything is flying, capital ships bristling with guns are just as important as fighters, although in many ways that depends on the technologies involved. Once the GTVA develops shielded caps, it's all over for the fighters....they'll be as obselete as the battleship is now.

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Last edited by Shrike on 12-27-2001 at 11:32 AM

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
But who had the most effective air forces?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
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In similar exercises, Canadian pilots using CF-18's (F/A-18 A's) and simulated Sparrow missiles for Canadian pilots and AMRAAM missiles for American pilots, beat their American counterparts.

It happens. That doesn't deny the fact that American pilots are some of the best in the world, it just says that others have some of the best pilots in the world as well.

The IAF and RCAF for instance

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Belleville, IL, USA
Posts: 760

Canada has a military?!

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 91

If moose made up their military strength, then yes.

Last edited by LionHeart on 12-28-2001 at 06:41 PM

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Nuclear Missile Control room
Posts: 79

Yes. We are quite the pasifists here in Canada. We have about 6 working ships in our navy.

Quite pathetic. But we used to have an impressive military.

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Scandinavia
Posts: 271

what if america invades you?

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Carrot

The Yamato was sunk because budget cuts meant that it had 2nd hand 15inch cruiser turrets with cruiser amour, which was easly penetrated by dive bombers.

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Actually, the Yamato was crippled by the dive bombers, then the crew ran it aground. (Just nitpicking. )

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Then something happened that unleashed the power of our imagination.
We learned to talk......."

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
Posts: 97

Yes the fore and aft 15 inch turrets moutned behind the 18 inch turrets were taken from the Mogami class light cruisers , and such they only had light cruiser amour, though these were later removed and replaced with 100 mm guns the weakness of the turret mounting and barcketing remained (only the top section of turret was replaced) and this led to serious amour defects which allowed american dive bomber bombs to penetrate if i recall number 3 magazine far in advance of its relevant damage threshold.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
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Canada has a well trained military, but we just don't have anything to use. Our CF-18's are F/A-18 A's, our tanks are old, our helicopters need months in the repair shop after a 2 hour flight, and only our navy is worth anything and we've got something like 12 destroyers and 2 subarmines in total. Its quite pathetic.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 91

Im sure Canada will be better off with Indian spears and pitchforks.

Last edited by LionHeart on 01-01-2002 at 08:55 PM

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 1216

quote:

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Originally posted by IceFire
Canada has a well trained military, but we just don't have anything to use. Our CF-18's are F/A-18 A's, our tanks are old, our helicopters need months in the repair shop after a 2 hour flight, and only our navy is worth anything and we've got something like 12 destroyers and 2 subarmines in total. Its quite pathetic.

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Don't view it as pathetic; view it as good! Canada is leading the world in disarmament! If we all had military forces like those of Canada, hardly anybody would be able to hurt anyone else!

Of course, what (most of) you guys probably don't hear about the British armed forces is that they're crap too. Our Navy doesn't do live fire simulations anymore, the sailors just shout 'bang' and a computer logs the shell trajectory etc. The ships run engines on half of the time, and in 'neutral' the rest, so they don't use fuel. And so on, and so on.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: The 5th layer of Hell
Posts: 127

If Canada ever came under some kind of attack they would probably be reinforced by the Americans due to the proximity and close relations.

But why would anyone attack Canada of all countries?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Dayton
Posts: 1430

quote:

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Originally posted by Kellan


Don't view it as pathetic; view it as good! Canada is leading the world in disarmament! If we all had military forces like those of Canada, hardly anybody would be able to hurt anyone else!

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Yeah, the disarmament route is a really safe one. Just look what happened to Alderaan in Star Wars. I don't think anyone from that planet would say anything to support disarmament anymore. Then again, I don't think a lot of them would say anything anyways.

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