Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

Read your books again, the Iowa class is definitely NOT a Destroyer. Read 'Jane's fighting ships'. In the present destroyers are allround fighting ships. They are used for escort duty mainly. They are definitly NOT the biggest ships. The newest destroyer of the US Navy is about 180 meters long(Arleigh Burke).
So again Iowa is defiitly NOT a destroyer, it's a Battleship(Designation BB). Battleship is a completely different type than destroyer(designation DD-, - is a letter for different destroyer types).

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
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Whats the Arleigh Burke designation? DDG? I forget.

Basically, in the US fleet you have this kind of force setup.

You have your Frigates, Destroyers, Cruisers, and Carriers. The Battleship class has been mothballed completely and is far too expensive to operate and far too ineffective (except in very specific situations) to use.

Frigates are more for (correct me if im wrong) fleet patrol, ASW, and marine support. Destroyers are for sea and air defense (using AEGIS) as well as some offensive operations, the Guided Missile Cruisers are similar in providing the bulk of air defense as well as long range cruise missile capability, and the two main types of carriers (assault and super) are the center of the fleet with all of the airborne assets.

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
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The Burke class is a Destroyer, Ticonderoga, cruiser (It's bigger), both ships are AEGIS. The Frigate currently used by the USN is I thing the Perry class, mainly to look for bankrupt Russian subs. I think they'res also a Spruance class (named for the ww2 admiral, I don't remember the spelling) but I can't remember what class it's supposed to be.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

Arleigh Burke = DDG
Spruance = DD
Ticonderoga = CG
Oliver Hazard Perry = FFG
Carriers = CV(N)

Yeah that's all corect.
Iowa class is mothballed, and I repeat again IT IS NOT A DESTROYER!!!

Last edited by Starkiller on 12-06-2001 at 05:44 PM

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

the battleships aren't innefectual - just of not use for defensive role so will only be brought back into service when we plan on invading a a fortified island and if they get within range of an enemy ship - bye bye - those guns will sink anything if they hit it

i would have thought that perahps a modern battleship could be made though one that could be used ina defensive role - obvioulsy still with the huge guns but perhaps not relying on them as its primary weapon - more missiles and torps etc better anti air defence - make it a command and control ship that either accompanys carriers or could even form there own battlegroups with a smaller carrier providing aircover

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
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The cost of retro-fitting one of those dinosaurs could more than pay for a new hull.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location:
Posts: 56

I think your right about the Iowa class, my mistake. I read the book again and they are BATTLESHIPS. I think the reason for the Victory class being called a destroyer is because it sounds better. I mean come on, would like to be called the Victory class Cruiser or the Victory class destroyer. Better yet they may have called it the Victory class Dreadnought or Battleship. I think the Victory class Juggernought would sound better though.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

As I originally suggested, I think that they made an early error in their EA ship naming convention and changed the whole convention to make the mistake right again

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Tampere,Finland
Posts: 25

Oh gee we had a debate of Warlock vs. a VCD over at the Great Wars HW mod forum.Only a couple were acutally trying to defend the Warlock but at the end the decision was that the VCD would win with pretty low damage.Now what comes to the weapons in
the VCD,the beam weapons in it (except the main gun) are the same vorlon improed beam weapons that are in the whitestar.In ACTA there was one of those 52 km long Drakh motherships among the other ships in the front line,later in the battle we see the VCD firing its forward beams and those beams rip the side of that mothership to pieces with ease.We allso see a bit before that the VCD again firing its forward beams this time on a Drakh 3km cruiser,the beams cut the ship and rip the whole center of it to hell.The power on the beams is pretty darn impressie if we just watch the visual evidence.

If the Sharlin would make it so close to the VCD to pass it from another side it would take the fire of the turret beams mounted on the top of the neck.

VCD wins plain and simple

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

i disagree i would say the sharlins beams are on average alot more powerful than the whitestars - remember they weren't sure if the whitestar woudl ahve enough firepower to stope a shadow ship a sharlin does no question - and doesn't need to takes its jump drive offline to do so - and the white stars take a while to burn though a basic omega - the warlocks aremour is better than a normal omega so obvioulsy drack armour is just cr*p - and white star beams are nothing on the god cannons two of those will burn through anything in seconds probally one of the most powerful beam weapons made by any of the younger races just limited by refire rate - only weapon more powerful is the victorys main guns but that leave the shipa sitting duck for a minute the god cannons dont

of the younger races humans are the ones who are going to build planet killers that vape planets with beam fire like the vorlons - back to the sharlin vs the victory the victory is the superior ship but not by that much - the vic is only a serious threat when targets are in front of it and i would argue to the death that it is as manuverable as a sharlin - the minbari have had ages to perfect there drive tech - humans have only been messing with it for afew years - even with minbari specs they still couldn't get the gravity to work properly so its obvioulsy not quite as prefected as the sharlin - and the victorys flank weapons consist of 2 beam cannons and anitfighter stuff the sharlin can fire nearly half of its weapon directed to the flanks - it has very impressive firing arc - very few blind spots might be abit vulnerable from below but thats it

warlock is vulnerable to powerful ship on the flanks - but omega sized ships i can take with the plasma cannons and smaller pulse weapons - for big shisp it needs them in the forward arc to chop them up with the main cannons

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

KMN, but you are missing important point:
Whitestar only has one beam gun, Sharlins have a lot of them.
The one beam gun on Whitestar has about same powerlevel as one of the Sharlins heavy beams. If Whitestar can destroy a Shadow battlecrab even if it has to turn off jump drive, it has some serious firepower.

If all the beam guns on Victory are on the same level of Whitestar's... it can blast battlecrabs easily.

It's true that GOD beam guns are very powerful, more powerful than any other except FirstOnes weapons. But it requires a lot of power to operate. That is probably the reason why Warlock has only two of them, also quite limited arc of fire...

It's also true that Victories not perfected yet, that's why they were PROTOTYPES.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

The Victory is alot better than the Sharlin in alot of ways. If the sharlin was better why create the Victory Class?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
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The Sharlin is part of the Minbari Fleet. The Victory was designed for the ISA fleet....which is more of a peacekeeping operation. But its hard to be a peacekeeper if you've got a tin can and a pellet gun to do it.

I'd say that the Sharlin is still the most powerful one, but that the Victory has some serious firepower of its own.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

it does stand to reason that the minbari being the oldest of the younger races has the most powerful ships - while the isa my be supported by the minbari that is because of delenn i bet there are many who would rather keep there tech out of others hands cause other races would then be able to challenge them - the vicoty uses some minbari tech but i doubt the most powerful of those techs were given over - certainly no evidence to suggest it has stealth capabilites etc - and there is no way the whitestars weapons are as powerful as a sharlins - a sharlin we all agree could cut a omega to pieces in seconds and the earth allinace know its thats why they ran away from teh sharlins protecting b5 but whitestar fire was not overly effective against omegas do you think for example if 6 whitestars had jumped into to promixma that they would have won??????? not a change the omegas would have slaughtered them. i'd say 1 sharlin could take all size omegas - well certainly 2 could

nope sharlin still the best then the victory then the warlock - makes more sence that way

and anyone ever consider that when you compare sizes the victory is huge underarmed compared to sharlin - its what 3 times as big and not as well armed doesn't have nearly asmany beam cannons - 3 sharlins thats ALOT of firepower

but anyway i still like the warlock =) whip all your asses =) ohhhhhhh and a warlock-x i think at least 1 must have been built at some point - now that would chop up victory and sharlin at the same time hehehehe

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

KMN, again you missed the point.

NUMBER OF WEAPONS!

Even Victory does not have as many weapons as Sharlin does, but ONE beam weapon on Victory is at least the same powerlevel as ONE Sharlin beam weapon. As is the ONLY AND ONE beam weapon on Whitestars.

Oh yeah, Victory is 1,87 times as long as Sharlin.
But Sharlin is much taller than Victory (excluding wings)

But it seems that we can't have mutual understanding in this matter.

I still think that Victory have just about same firepower than Sharlin and Warlock without it's main gun.

Battle outcome:
1) Victory 2) Sharlin 3) Warlock
That makes more sense for me.

I'm tired of fighting on this...
I'm just happy if we can make the Victory's main gun working well.. the rest depends on mission designers.

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 12-08-2001 at 11:02 PM

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

The Victory has eight Neutron Beams (the heavy Sharlin beams), whilst the Sharlin only has six, with both having four in the front fire arc. OK, the Sharlin has multiple weaker fusion beam cannons (probably about a dozen) and the Vicory has two triple turrets of probably similar power as well as 15 anti-fighter turrets. Add in the main Vorlon beam cannon on the Victory and I would say that the Victory was more heavily armed than the Sharlin.

Add this to having similar armour, propulsion and fighter capabilities, sensors rendering stealth devices obsolete and the Victory having more mass, I would say that the Victory should win every time

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Registered: May 2001
Location:
Posts: 155

beams beams beams... you all think its about beams...

Ok novas "pre-beams" could do some serious damage to sharlins if they got close enough... but the novas dont have the speed... the victory does have the speed and range to pummel a sharlin withs is turrets

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

The point is not about beams, but that effectively with respect to beam weaponry the Sharlin and Victory are relatively evenly matched (Victory getting the edge).

I agree, pulse (plasma) weaponry can be equally effective as both an explosive and concussive weapon. Most of the damage inflicted on the Grey Council Sharlin in 'In the Beginning' was concussive (internal) with little or no external damage.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

It just depends on the level of tech which is more effective: pulses or beams.

The Centauri uses pulses much more than beams, it does not make their ships any weaker. Actually most ships have better protection against beams than pulses, this can increase effect of pulse weaponry.

The best solution is to use both, Sharlin does not have pulses (apart from TBP emp-pulses) but Victory has two heavy plasma cannons in the front and IIRC it also has one just below the command section. And of course anti-fighter gatling-guns in the wings.

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 12-08-2001 at 11:42 PM

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

The Victory has way better Armour than the Sharlin. 80% reflective too.

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