Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

No, I don't think that Vorlon fighter has a greater firepower than an Omega destroyer. In packs they can destroy easily much larger ships though, but lone fighter is quickly dispatched.

It feels stupid that a Vorlon transport can destroy Shadow battlecrab, they are small but still have at least equal firepower to that on Sharlins. I still suggest using a Vorlon cruiser, which is larger than transport, have fighterbay but is quite similar looking.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

i disagree - it was a vorlon transport - it doesn't have as much firepower as a crab but it had enough to hold it in its beam long enough to destroy it or to heat it up then ram right through but it was a transport - as for teh fighter yeah - i agree but without a fighter cover i'd say the vorlon fighter has an excelent chance of taking down an omega

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 122

good, my job here is finsihed. I've succeeded in spreading debate and chaos into this topic. We've brought out the Vorlon people and the Shadow people, now all we gotta do is start fighting and make the others decide which of us is right.

Seriously, all this bickering over "who's better" is ridiculous. WE will NEVER know who's better because they never existed. It is a TV show, entertainment, none of it is meant to be taken ultra-seriously. Plus, we don't know everything about these 2 races. All we know is what we've seen. It is impossible to make judgements about who's better based on probably less than 1hr of film showing Shadow and Vorlon ships actually fighting. The rest is pure speculation, personal opinions, and theories. As my astronomy teacher always says, "if you can't prove it with numbers then don't believe it." So no one will ever be able to prove that the Vorlons are better than the Shadows, the numbers just aren't there to prove it. So why the incessant bickering? Simple, we (myself included) have no lives and can afford to waste away arguing about such silly and pointless things. And for those of you who don't agree that's cool. "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink."

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

yes, it is speculating, but that's the fun part of it. Use your imagination.

Last edited by Starkiller on 11-08-2001 at 11:28 PM

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

I know what the capabilities of the Transport are, I just was commenting that as the Destroyer was such an unknown (if it even exists!) that even whether it's wings open was a mystery. In my opinion the ship was a Destroyer, but there is no hard evidence for that and I admit that.

Of course it is only a TV show, but that's the beauty of it. People can use their imaginations based upon the facts supplied and derive their own conclusions.

Finally, I am definitely a Shadow fan I think the whole mysterious image is great, including the fact that the Shadows admit to Sheridan what the war is about in a bare-faced attempt to try to sway his support to their side.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 122

good, the world needs more Shadow fans. The Shadows are mother, the Shadows are father. Submit to the Shadows. The Shadows are your friends. They'll give you what you want.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

the vorlons are far more mysterious they never give youa striaght answer they hid there appearance make you think the looked like something else - they hide the true extent of there tech they either destroy or capture any ships in there space - the shadows were learn alot about them hat they look like what they think very early its not unitl right at the end we leanr anything about the vorlons motives - they are the mysterious ones - and so it begins etc to many koshism to count

and the vorlsons ships are sooooo much cooler with bigger guns that looks amazing when being fired - what more cana person want

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Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Z'ha'dum
Posts: 1402

quote:

---

Originally posted by ivanenski

Seriously, all this bickering over "who's better" is ridiculous. WE will NEVER know who's better because they never existed. It is a TV show, entertainment, none of it is meant to be taken ultra-seriously. Plus, we don't know everything about these 2 races. All we know is what we've seen. It is impossible to make judgements about who's better based on probably less than 1hr of film showing Shadow and Vorlon ships actually fighting. The rest is pure speculation, personal opinions, and theories. As my astronomy teacher always says, "if you can't prove it with numbers then don't believe it." So no one will ever be able to prove that the Vorlons are better than the Shadows

---

Shut-up you're spoiling our fun.

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

I've checked the episode 'Interludes and Examinations' and the Transport/Destroyer is definitely over40% of the length of the Shadow Battlecrab. Given that the Transport fits in Babylon 5's docking bay, making it definitely under 100m in length (compared to human sizes in the docking bay it looked more like 30m), that would make the Battlecrab only aroud 100m wide!!!

If however, the vessel was a Destroyer at ~300m long, the Battlecrab would be roughly 800m wide.

I know which figure I belive to be more accurate

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 122

Edwin, don't tempt me to come up to Phoenix and beat you.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
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I agree with Triggy. That must've been a scaled up "destroyer"-type version of the transport. We already know that the smallest battlecrab is roughly 800m (I think). That Vorlon was quite large against it, so it is logical that it has to be much larger than your average transport.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

i disagree kinda - i had thought that someone might bring up the fact the transport ships was quite large next to the shadow ship but there is still noevidence to say there ever was a vorlon destroyer and the shadow ship on mars and io did not seem that large but its seemed to be there standard size - however i would really put the size issue down to the inconsistancys of b5 rather than a new class of vorlon ship which happens to look identicle to the vorlon trnasport

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Posts: 169

ok I have to point something out with this whole colony thing. Wasn't the narn colony just a dome on the ground? It ilooked similar to an EA one. It isn't exactly that hard to bring down a dome. One more thing. All vorlons are telepathic correct? Isn't that a VERY big advantage?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

Depends on how powerful and to what extent their telepathy works. Its obviously limited in some ways and extremely powerful in others.

I thought it was fairly widely accepted that there were Transport and Cruiser versions of the "same ship". Which explains the size.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 163

Ok, I haven't researched this so it may have come up before
but if the Vorlon ships are based on organic tech are they
built or grown? If they are grown the class of ship kind of
becomes a moot point because the only difference would be
how old the ship was ie how much it had grown.
The youngest ships would be fighters the oldest cruisers etc.
Well it's just an idea.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Shadow battlecrabs exist in different sizes...

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

I know, but my point was that they aren't smaller than a few hundred metres. After reading JMS's comments (as posted on http://www.ntua.gr/lurk/guide/059.html) I'm not so sure about the whole Destroyer thing. A very likely explanation is that a lot of the firepower used on the Battlecrab came from the Vorlon Dreadnought, with the Transport just flying through the Battlecrab when it was destroyed. The size errors can also be attributed to CGI errors.

I still don't think that a Transport could be that powerful due to it's size. Also fighters of a similar size do not have weapons that powerful.

As an aside, JMS says in those comments: "Vorlon/Shadow tech is more or less at the same level; the Vorlons had the benefit of surprise."

I would take this as an indication that the Vorlons are not really superior to the Shadows in terms of technology, if at all.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

yup they are at a similar level of tech i'm not disputing that but lets face it the vorlons have bigger guns - and thats the important bit =) i would feel far safer on a huge stonkering great big vorlon dreadnaught than the largest battelcrab

as for the ships - i will conceed that perahps the vorlon transports grow over time and get bigger and as such there firepower increases and i will conseed that perahps the one that took out the battelcrab was quite a big transport ship but it wasn't a destroyer as such, just an old transport ship that has grown into a big death dealing shuttle craft =)

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

one other thing - watch the epsiode it is the transport that destroys it - you see the beam firing from the ship and it heating up the ship then bursting thought - the dreadnuahgt would kill the things very quickly - very big gun on it

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3194

It was said in the show that Shadow vessels were built, not grown. I think this same apllies to the Vorlons as well.

I wonder if Vorlon ships have any smaller guns covering it's sides and rear?

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