Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Finland, beyond the Rim
Posts: 164

quote:

---

the magic of J.M.S ?

---

That must be it, in Star Wars it's George Lucas's physics. Ain't it funny how these can get out of hands: sci-fi has always provided scientists with challenges to meet -and some things that simply cannot exist and that are therefore unreachable dreams. Still we're figuring out reasonable explanations for those cool ideas of CG artists'... But I find few things more enjoyable than figuring out ways to explain unexplainable things by "common sense". And I don't seem to be the only one here

No, no, no, Edwin, by saying photons I meant photons, those packets of energy that are created in various interactions inside and outside nuclear level where Newtonian physics has to give way to newer innovations. I meant to put neutrons there as well but I wrote the text in such a hurry that I simply forgot . They are mentioned elsewhere in the text, though.

It is indeed difficult to control flows of non-charged particles, such as neutral atoms or neutrons, or photons that have no mass nor charge. They "feel" matter, though: as we all know, low-energy photons can reflect from a well-polished surface. Just go see yourself in the nearest mirror. Photons with higher energy, e.g. X-rays or gamma radiation "feel" matter only slightly and don't really bother themselves to change direction when meeting a solid surface (reflection is a phenomenom of the electron cell and already XUV starts to have too high energy for that). Neutrons can be controlled with suitable lenses, too: they obey Bragg's law and can be handled as de Broglie's waves. They are dualistic as well as electrons are: they have mass but for some reason they can be handled as packets of energy in simpler calculations, i.e. they have "wavelength" and "energy". This doesn't really help us, as can be noted: refraction and reflection both require the flow to pass through matter.

The last way to control almost anything is gravity. We don't know how to create it or how to go round it and perhaps we won't know it in our lifetime, but anyway it affects almost everything: gravity affects particles with mass -and photons without mass as well since (according to the theories that are considered reliable now) mass 'bends' the space itself causing the photon's route to follow these 'curves'. Streams of particles or photons can therefore be directed off course by enormously strong gravity. There's only one REALLY big problem: gravity always pulls, it never pushes. This requires further thinking... An ultra-hyper-super-powerful vacuum cleaner without anything to collect the dangerous dust into !

The Vorlons or the Shadows won't surely have a problem with this: they have practically infinite energy resources from Hyperspace via 'hyperspace taps', and I guess they would be able to direct energy from enemy weapons back to Hyperspace. (No, they did not do that... Yeah, I have found something they did not think of! *evil laugh* )

__________________
<something you really cannot put here...>
-a Weird One

Just plain poison... Watch out for your nerves!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: South Australia,Australia,Sol
Posts: 1185

Could screens mean all defensive weaponary ie interceptors,tracking and targeting computers.Instead of saying all of this they just say screens so it cuts down on time to deploy such devices, just a thought.

__________________
"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here"-Walkers of Sigma957
[url=http://ifh.firstones.com]IFH[/url]-B5 free game
[url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/]The Babylon Project[/url]-Bringing Babylon 5 to Freespace2

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
Posts: 1234

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jokoto
I've been thinking about the "energy web" thing, and maybe it could be something in the hull construction to disrupt beams - and minbari beams would so effective because they don't care about magnetic interference. On the other hand, neither do photons, so the X-Ray lasers of EA wouldn't have any more difficulty either! If the beam defenses are something that conduct the heat away from the single point though, how could they be called "interceptors" and be "down" then, enabling easy penetration? How could we disrupt a flux of photons or other magnetically neutral particles like neutrons anyway?

---

__________________
Questions about FS3? Questions about Fred? Questions about missions? Questions about adding new ships to your games?

[URL=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/intro.html]Karajorma's Freespace FAQ [/URL] (now with added GE goodness)

Supreme Overlord of The Mercury Affair Campaign.

FREDder, Modder, Story design and general busybody for [URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/Background.html] Mind Games[/URL]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

ok first off there is no evidence that says the shields installed on the thrids space artifact were of alien orgins infactthe factthe lita knew exactly how to get through them suggests otherwise also the shields only appeared when the power core was started the shields came up not a seperate system adn if the aliens had installed tech in the device surely they could have gotten it started themselves

the vorlons and shadows - frankly the tech shadow tech didn't seem as advanced as the vorlon and its onyl minbari legend that has the shadows oldest when infact we knew loriens race is older and they taught the shadows and the vorlons

and i watched the episode where the shdows and vorlons go at it and there is some sort of distortions at the imapct point of the shadow beam on the vorlon tenticle

as for the what lenier said he said the white star usd the bio armor of the vorlons fine i acknowledged it in my last post but notice the face the white star is not a vorlon cruiser so the vorlons didn't give them all there tech

with there control over gravity, magnitism, telekenetic and all sort of other energies i dont doubt the vorlons coudl erect some energy barrier infact kosh himselve in his encounter suit used things like that to pin sheridan against a wall

as for the pilto screens/ shields not much difference the implication is teh same sheilds - but that was the pilot and lots changed so i discount that as jms descided to go for a less advanced tech for most races

now for ea vessels a super cooled condiuts running under the hull plating to coolit very usefula dn probally equally effective

magnetic sheilds against plasma weapon another good idea kenetic weapon well interceptors coudl be used

__________________
Go Away you annoy me you pathetic blob

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

Is he writing like that on purpose?


(I'm off to get some sleep, will attempt to decipher that text later.)

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

Lyta had the information from the vorlons that had fought against the aliens and tried to destroy the artifact before. It's no wonder they knew enough about it to get Sheridan through with the nuke. We don't know how close to it's destruction they got, or anything else about that time... If I recall correctly, the shield on the artifact looked just like the ones on the fighters... and nothing like any other would-be-shield-effects on vorlon ships (or suits). True, vorlons have some shielding tech, for example just look at the episode Falling Toward Apotheosis (season 4) where Kosh II is being booted out of the station... One other notable thing was Jason Ironheart's telekinetic curtain in the episode Mind War.

Again, where do you get the idea that "screens" indicate shields? Every other possibility for their meaning sounds more plausible. Come on, if you thought of a station that had to rotate for artificial gravity, what sense does it make to then give it such a superior technology like shields? This, combined with your claim that it was then removed afterwards for the series, makes this even more ludicrous... All the changes from pilot were actor changes that depend on people making their decisions and having other plans, and prop/set changes that are upgrades when more money is available. No changes in technology! It's fiction all the way, free from budgets and schedules. Your claim makes no sense.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

I really don't see why this thread is still alive. B5 never had shields. B5 aint never gonna have shields. And will you please stop thinking about Thirdspace. This is really getting boring...

__________________
"I'm not saying anything. I didn't say anything then, and I'm not saying anything now." -Dukath

FREDer for [url=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/index.htm]Honour of Omega[/url]
Creator of Movements in the Mist campaign

Oh ****! Those idiots did it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 20

(drags the topic kicking and screaming back to the original question)

Icefire, even if its not really possible to make interceptors in game 'shoot down' incoming fire, could you at least include them as anti-fighter weapons (as they were used in severed dreams)

PS: Jokoto, how did someone who hates shields so much end up buying freespace

__________________
Dishonour before death

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
Posts: 1755

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prophet
I really don't see why this thread is still alive. B5 never had shields. B5 aint never gonna have shields. And will you please stop thinking about Thirdspace. This is really getting boring...

---

__________________
"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
-Shogun Tokugawa

Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 1901

quote:

---

Originally posted by ravingpartyking
(drags the topic kicking and screaming back to the original question)

Icefire, even if its not really possible to make interceptors in game 'shoot down' incoming fire, could you at least include them as anti-fighter weapons (as they were used in severed dreams)

PS: Jokoto, how did someone who hates shields so much end up buying freespace

---

If you mean the turrets on the Omega...yes they are indeed used for anti-fighter operations to some degree of success. All capital ships have a number of anti-fighter weapons being towed around. No worries

__________________
- The Babylon Project Team

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

quote:

---

Originally posted by ravingpartyking
PS: Jokoto, how did someone who hates shields so much end up buying freespace

---

What do you mean, "hates shields"?

Shields are cool. (and AT Field is even cooler)
Trying to claim B5 has any is not. It's simply... ridiculous.

Yeah, I won't mention turdspace again, having taken care of those claims... It's really best left forgotten.

The thread is still alive because I'd really like to see working interceptors in TBP, if a solution is figured out. I'm quite optimistic about it... At worst it would just increase cpu requirements somewhat, which eventually wouldn't be too bad.

Last edited by Jokoto on 04-13-2003 at 11:30 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Z'ha'dum
Posts: 1402

you know what i don' get? Why EVERYONE in B5 uses a weapon that travels trough real-space. Would it not be possible to open a jumphole and send shots into hyperspace? And wouldn't be possible to re-rout the shot and send back into real-space hurtling to the ship that fired it?. Or wouldn't it be more practical (if energy allowed it) to "project" a low-energy jump-point through a ship than shoot at it?

__________________
"If you go to Z'ha'dum you will die"
-Kosh
(natives of Z'ha'dum may ignore this)

For all the rest of you.... don't come here.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

excuse me but there were lots of changes from teh pilot episode

minbari in the pilot epsiode were the oldest race on b5 not the vorlons

hell the minbari were an androgeous race

the centuari while in the series might not be the empire tehy once were in the pilot they were a tiny little empire who jstu wanted to follow along the Mighty earth alliance

as for the screens idont know the way it was said was very much raise sheilds - feel free to put up what you think she ment by screens at maximum

just seemed to to me alot was different in it pilot

hehe as i said before i dont think it owuld take several vorlon cruisers 2 dreadnaughts and about 50 fighters to dispatch b5 but tahts what they sent anh teh vorlons power was upp considerablly for the show and thank god they got rid of all those flashing lights thats was jsut tacky

and vorlons ahve shields no question about taht if you ask me they jsut work abit differently than say the third space alien ones

__________________
Go Away you annoy me you pathetic blob

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

and yes opening a jump point on your target is a very effient method of killign them as the minbair used this tactic during the ea minbari war however the way i see jumpoints working is the energy ahs to reacha crital level before the point forms there is no half way house its either open or its not so if you used this methos if you miss of the ship evade then gets the opper hand your engines might not have recharged suffiently to escape - adn nope dont they wouldn't have toime to get a point opena dn no way of rerouting the shot back unless perahsp youra vorlon and can mold hyperspace

__________________
Go Away you annoy me you pathetic blob

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 190

quote:

---

Originally posted by KillMeNow
minbari in the pilot epsiode were the oldest race on b5 not the vorlons

hell the minbari were an androgeous race

the centuari while in the series might not be the empire tehy once were in the pilot they were a tiny little empire who jstu wanted to follow along the Mighty earth alliance

as for the screens idont know the way it was said was very much raise sheilds - feel free to put up what you think she ment by screens at maximum

just seemed to to me alot was different in it pilot

hehe as i said before i dont think it owuld take several vorlon cruisers 2 dreadnaughts and about 50 fighters to dispatch b5 but tahts what they sent anh teh vorlons power was upp considerablly for the show and thank god they got rid of all those flashing lights thats was jsut tacky

and vorlons ahve shields no question about taht if you ask me they jsut work abit differently than say the third space alien ones

---

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: GTD Haydon
Posts: 357

The way I see it, shielding may not be such a bad idea on certain ships - organic ones. They wouldn't be called shields, they obviously wouldn't show up on the hud but shielding - on Shadow ships, Vorlon ships, and maybe even the Whitestar and Omega X - could be used to simulate the ability of those ships' organic hulls to absorb some degree of weapons energy. The effects would require tweeking, and this may not work with the Omega X since that has a rotating section, but it could still prove useful.

What do yall think?

__________________
[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th/"]158th Banshee Squadron[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 1

On the subject of interceptors, why not design them as counter measures? Not having the interceptor track the incomming fire, but rather drawing the incomming fire to it.

Just a thought I had (Something that doesn't happen often to be sure)

AlphaEpsilon

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
Posts: 735

The only way to draw fire to a certain point, other than where it was aimed-is a black hole. Or a quasar or something with a big nasty gravitational pull that you wouldn't want to be anywhere near.

BTW-kill this thread.

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Transylvania, ROMANIA
Posts: 1040

FlakBait ..any reson to do so?

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2001
Location: Stelring, VA, USA
Posts: 212

quote:

---

Originally posted by AlphaEpsilon
On the subject of interceptors, why not design them as counter measures? Not having the interceptor track the incomming fire, but rather drawing the incomming fire to it.

Just a thought I had (Something that doesn't happen often to be sure)

AlphaEpsilon

---

__________________
Lord Refa: Why should I do as you say?
Centauri Ambassador Londo Mollari: Because I have asked you; because your sense of duty to our people should override any personal ambition; and because I have poisoned your drink.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged