Registered: Jun 2002
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If you have space and subspace (which requires a large amount of energy to enter), then perhaps there is sub-subspace, which requires ridiculous amounts of energy to enter (Shivan quantites, perhaps). They may only use 'ordinary' subspace to conserve energy. Also, maybe jump nodes are Lagrange points - with gravity all around you, but the opposing fields cancel out, leaving you with no interference to your drives so that you can make a large jump (between systems) accurately.

__________________
"Once I destroyed the world with nuclear fire to clear the way for my cybernetic future. I now intend to further shape the world into my own image by surgically removing unwanted growths like yourself!" - NEXUS, Warzone 2100

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Registered: Apr 2002
Location: Kansas City, KS
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ns33
NASA is still reviewing this data and has not yet officially relased a statement, but the prospect that something else traveling as fast or faster than light is exhilerating!!

---

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ZylonBane's opinions do not reflect those of the management.
That's [url=http://home.att.net/~clay.h/fs2/violition.htm]VOLITION[/url]!

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Location: Kansas City, KS
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quote:

---

Originally posted by ns33
NASA is still reviewing this data and has not yet officially relased a statement, but the prospect that something else traveling as fast or faster than light is exhilerating!!

---

__________________
ZylonBane's opinions do not reflect those of the management.
That's [url=http://home.att.net/~clay.h/fs2/violition.htm]VOLITION[/url]!

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Posts: 1234

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
We've know about quantum entanglement (which is supposed to propagate instantaneously) for decades.

---

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[URL=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/intro.html]Karajorma's Freespace FAQ [/URL] (now with added GE goodness)

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quote:

---

Originally posted by ZylonBane
We've know about quantum entanglement (which is supposed to propagate instantaneously) for decades.

---

__________________
Questions about FS3? Questions about Fred? Questions about missions? Questions about adding new ships to your games?

[URL=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/intro.html]Karajorma's Freespace FAQ [/URL] (now with added GE goodness)

Supreme Overlord of The Mercury Affair Campaign.

FREDder, Modder, Story design and general busybody for [URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/Background.html] Mind Games[/URL]

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quote:

---

Originally posted by karajorma

If gravity does travel faster than light (and that is a VERY big if) you could transmit information that way (although it wouldn`t be easy)

---

Transmitting information by gravitional waves may be subject to extreme disturbances. Radio waves are floating in space all day, every day, emitted by the suns. Most radio waves come from stellar objects such as suns, quasars, black holes, etc., not subject to too much disturbance. But the problem with gravity waves is that its EVERYWHERE, and interference will be a big problem. First of all, if we were to send a message by gravity waves in the first place, it'd be warped by planetary and solar gravity. Second, on the theory of dark matter, we still dont know what it is. Theory runs that it accounts for more than 90% of the matter in the Universe. If so, then according to current physical laws, it also must account for more than 90% of the gravity.

The prospect of being able to transmit information is very big (assuming we could do it in the first place ). But its not that we've speculated that there are other things that travel or have a velocity equal to or greater than that of light, its that we can actually prove it.

__________________
Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

Leagacy at the [VBB] - October 2001 - April 2002 - 555 posts
[url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th]The 158th[/url]

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quote:

---

Originally posted by karajorma

If gravity does travel faster than light (and that is a VERY big if) you could transmit information that way (although it wouldn`t be easy)

---

Transmitting information by gravitional waves may be subject to extreme disturbances. Radio waves are floating in space all day, every day, emitted by the suns. Most radio waves come from stellar objects such as suns, quasars, black holes, etc., not subject to too much disturbance. But the problem with gravity waves is that its EVERYWHERE, and interference will be a big problem. First of all, if we were to send a message by gravity waves in the first place, it'd be warped by planetary and solar gravity. Second, on the theory of dark matter, we still dont know what it is. Theory runs that it accounts for more than 90% of the matter in the Universe. If so, then according to current physical laws, it also must account for more than 90% of the gravity.

The prospect of being able to transmit information is very big (assuming we could do it in the first place ). But its not that we've speculated that there are other things that travel or have a velocity equal to or greater than that of light, its that we can actually prove it.

__________________
Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

Leagacy at the [VBB] - October 2001 - April 2002 - 555 posts
[url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th]The 158th[/url]

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Budapest - Hungary
Posts: 32

Send data by gravity?
Why do it if it's only 10% faster than light - it woulf still take decades to reach another solarsystem.

About subspace:

Well I have a different opinion.
In Brief History of Time Stephan says *I've got to admit I don't really understand it since its rather a represntation than an explanation- that our world is 10 or 25 dimensional - we just don't realise it since on a macroscopic level only four are visible - the rest are wraped up.

My guess is that traveling in subsapce is actualy traveling in space - on those extensions; yet its faster from our pov since distances in that dimension don't necessarily match ones in our world, our space.

But how travel if those dimensions are wrapped up?

Here comes gravity. Remember that it's mention that for ordinary subspace travel you need a close gravity field?
In a sense gravity bends space - so subspace as well - stretching it out! So it creates a field of accesable subspace. There for in stellar systems you can go to almost anywhere where ther is a big enough mass.
However between solar systems you can only travel where there is still a strong enough subspace connection between them - created by gravity -- a tunnel !

So my image of subspace is a big spherical extension around solar systems - globe of subspace slowly dissipating - wih tunnels connecting separate systems. If the distence increases between the systems the gravity dissipates and the tunnel becomes more stretched-and finally collapses.

But gravity is created by mass - and mass and energy are equal so huge amount of energies can create significant gravity thereby enables the stabilisation of subspace- even to the extent of creating a portal to enter.

But during interstellar jumps to whole tunnel has to be stabilised - hence the energy demand. With enough energy subspace can be opened and tunneled to anywhere. In Capella the Shivans drained a star -turned it supernova- so with the exess energy they could create jump-node-solid subsapce out of nothing and create a subspace tunnel as well.

When the Lucifer exploded it unloaded such a great amoung of energy that ripped subsapce apart - there were gravitational shiftes all around the place creating bigger subsapce pocets along the way; while eliminating it in other places.

I think the Knossos somehow creates a constant gravital pull, stretching the subspace tunnel and stabilizing it.

So it can only stabilize a node, but not create one.

One more thing; why can't we see anything inside subspace when it's actually parallel with our own. Hence any mass bends it, it gets more "fluid around" matter so anything "zips" through or around it in subspace.

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Location: Budapest - Hungary
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Send data by gravity?
Why do it if it's only 10% faster than light - it woulf still take decades to reach another solarsystem.

About subspace:

Well I have a different opinion.
In Brief History of Time Stephan says *I've got to admit I don't really understand it since its rather a represntation than an explanation- that our world is 10 or 25 dimensional - we just don't realise it since on a macroscopic level only four are visible - the rest are wraped up.

My guess is that traveling in subsapce is actualy traveling in space - on those extensions; yet its faster from our pov since distances in that dimension don't necessarily match ones in our world, our space.

But how travel if those dimensions are wrapped up?

Here comes gravity. Remember that it's mention that for ordinary subspace travel you need a close gravity field?
In a sense gravity bends space - so subspace as well - stretching it out! So it creates a field of accesable subspace. There for in stellar systems you can go to almost anywhere where ther is a big enough mass.
However between solar systems you can only travel where there is still a strong enough subspace connection between them - created by gravity -- a tunnel !

So my image of subspace is a big spherical extension around solar systems - globe of subspace slowly dissipating - wih tunnels connecting separate systems. If the distence increases between the systems the gravity dissipates and the tunnel becomes more stretched-and finally collapses.

But gravity is created by mass - and mass and energy are equal so huge amount of energies can create significant gravity thereby enables the stabilisation of subspace- even to the extent of creating a portal to enter.

But during interstellar jumps to whole tunnel has to be stabilised - hence the energy demand. With enough energy subspace can be opened and tunneled to anywhere. In Capella the Shivans drained a star -turned it supernova- so with the exess energy they could create jump-node-solid subsapce out of nothing and create a subspace tunnel as well.

When the Lucifer exploded it unloaded such a great amoung of energy that ripped subsapce apart - there were gravitational shiftes all around the place creating bigger subsapce pocets along the way; while eliminating it in other places.

I think the Knossos somehow creates a constant gravital pull, stretching the subspace tunnel and stabilizing it.

So it can only stabilize a node, but not create one.

One more thing; why can't we see anything inside subspace when it's actually parallel with our own. Hence any mass bends it, it gets more "fluid around" matter so anything "zips" through or around it in subspace.

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Welcome to the VWBB, Zolee.

Anyway - nice theory. It sounds well thought over and quite plausible.

If subspace is simply extra dimensions which require gravity to uncurl them so that they are 'ready for use', then that would explain the differences in power and location between intra- and inter-system jumps.

For an intra-system jump, only a relatively random gravity field is needed to open up some extra dimensions, as the 'lower' dimensions may be less curled up than the 'higher' dimensions and the 'stretching' can be less precise as the dimensions are already 'large'.

Inter-system jumps may need the gravity fields to be equal and opposite (at L-points, for instance) so that the smaller dimensions are stretched more evenly and a ship can enter it without having to pump vast amounts of energy into it to open it up further.

This theory could state conclusively that there are no planets in subspace, as the strength of a gravitational field falls off exponentially with the number of dimensions - the gravity wouldn't be strong enough to clump the extra-dimensional dust into planets. Ships would be relatively unaffected, as the chemical bonds holding their hulls together work over such a short range that the extra dimensions would not affect them much.

It also explains why shields do not work in subspace - the energy needed to keep an EM field up at the same range as the shields normally project it would be astronomical, so the shields behave as though they weren't there.

However, it can't explain why the Lucy/meson bombs would collapse a jump corridor, as it would just be another explosion. Perhaps an explosion of that magnitude causes ripples in the gravitational field of subspace, which are magnified into raging torrents by the extra dimensions (I don't know how or why), thus making the jump corridor untraversable.

I could say more on this (and I want to), but I have to go, as I have a lesson in 5 min.

__________________
"Once I destroyed the world with nuclear fire to clear the way for my cybernetic future. I now intend to further shape the world into my own image by surgically removing unwanted growths like yourself!" - NEXUS, Warzone 2100

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Location: West Sussex, England
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Welcome to the VWBB, Zolee.

Anyway - nice theory. It sounds well thought over and quite plausible.

If subspace is simply extra dimensions which require gravity to uncurl them so that they are 'ready for use', then that would explain the differences in power and location between intra- and inter-system jumps.

For an intra-system jump, only a relatively random gravity field is needed to open up some extra dimensions, as the 'lower' dimensions may be less curled up than the 'higher' dimensions and the 'stretching' can be less precise as the dimensions are already 'large'.

Inter-system jumps may need the gravity fields to be equal and opposite (at L-points, for instance) so that the smaller dimensions are stretched more evenly and a ship can enter it without having to pump vast amounts of energy into it to open it up further.

This theory could state conclusively that there are no planets in subspace, as the strength of a gravitational field falls off exponentially with the number of dimensions - the gravity wouldn't be strong enough to clump the extra-dimensional dust into planets. Ships would be relatively unaffected, as the chemical bonds holding their hulls together work over such a short range that the extra dimensions would not affect them much.

It also explains why shields do not work in subspace - the energy needed to keep an EM field up at the same range as the shields normally project it would be astronomical, so the shields behave as though they weren't there.

However, it can't explain why the Lucy/meson bombs would collapse a jump corridor, as it would just be another explosion. Perhaps an explosion of that magnitude causes ripples in the gravitational field of subspace, which are magnified into raging torrents by the extra dimensions (I don't know how or why), thus making the jump corridor untraversable.

I could say more on this (and I want to), but I have to go, as I have a lesson in 5 min.

__________________
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- NEXUS, Warzone 2100

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Budapest - Hungary
Posts: 32

Thanks for the compliment.
I'll try to explain it a bit more:

(This is gona be a "big boring physics explanation" skip if you wish.)

I already mentioned, but maybe I didn't put it the right way. Electro-magnetic waves (such as light, gamma-rays, radio waves ect.); have mass as well this is minimal compared to matter(actually matter has waveform qualities, but for a proton the wavelengt is so huge it's hardly noticable).
Max Planc suggested that energy is not a constant thing it rather travels in the form of small pockets or quantums in other words. This explains how can electo-magnetic radiation dissipate as it does. For if energy were to spread in a constant stream, where on eath would starts or any radiating matter get the energy hence it would spreads in an infinity and would thereby mean an infinite level of enrgy.
For a single photon (the particle of light, or rather a quantum of light) the equation is the following(anyone into physics feel free to correct me; it's been quite a while since I learned quantum physics ):
E = h*f (f is the frequency; h is the Planck constant = 6.62545 *E-34 Joule s)
f=c/L (c is the speed of light = 3 * E80 m/s; L=lambda which equals wavelength)
E=mc2 (The classic Einstein formula)
h*f=mc2
m=h*f/c2
Lets take an example:
The wavelength is 500 nm (nanometer = 5 *E-7 (10 on the 7th index I hope I translated it to English the right way wish I could write actual equations); This puts the energy of a singel photon around 3.98* E-19 Joules. Very-or rather nano tiny. Now lets take a look at the mass: divide that quantity with the square of lightspeed which is 300.000 m/s.
So the mass of a single photon is 4.422* E-30 kg. No matter at all in real life terms.
But how many photons are present in and ordinary stream of light. Let's take for easiness a 2W green laser. 2W means its releases 2J of energy in the form of light every second. The wavelengt is (accidently ) 400nm. We already know that the energy of a photon in thet frequency is 3.98 *E-19 J (Laser emit a coherent beam of light, so all the photons are of the same wavelength). So it's a simple division:
N= 2 *E0 J/3.98 *E-19 J = 5 *E18 (N the number of photons), which is great bunch, no wonder they look like a continuos stream.
So the mass of the light emitted during a second is
5 * E18 (the number of photons) * 4.422 * E-30 (mass of single photon) = 2.211 * E-11 which is 22.11 nanograms.

(This is casual Freespace stuff)
Well this is mainly my idea, a simplier explanation would be that gravity can interfere as well, but that hasn't been proven so far.

The problem with huge explosions inside subpsace is not the matter of energy, since it can't be greater then the mass from which it was created. It's rather the way it spreads. EMwaves can interfare with eachother a lot more easier than matter (put the mass of a proton into the Einstein formula than aply the Planc formula -- the wavelength is gona be huge; it's practically impossible for matter - as you can see

EMwaves and matter are quite equal, just two faces of the same thign- in our terms to interfare).
Another thing is that space wraps in a strange way in an interstellar subspace tunnel, it somehow bends onto itself on the endges, so by going forward (truly ahead not just seemingly) you can return to your starting position. Imagine a ray of light (or any other EMwave) go normal to the tunnel, it would end up going in a ring never escaping onits own. What's the porblem with that? Nothing, but these rings are stil affected by gravity. So they end up going in spirals toward the source of the gravity - one of the stars at each end of the subspce tunnel where they enter one of the spherical subspace globes where the subspace is too stable for them to have any effect.

However if a lot of EMWaver are released into the tunnel, their mass could create a severe disturbance. How? - one would ask if we already pointed out that it can be not greater than that of the fuel the spacecraft used and from which they were created. For once we can certainly state that ships alone don't destabilize subspace tunnels.

The problem lies in the nature of light rings and light corkscrews (best term I could come up wiht ). They tend to interfere with
eachother, and also sway each other by their sheer mass. What if they created a complex, that has enough mass and integerity to keep it from falling into the gravity well of either of the stars? Well no big deal that would actually stabilize the tunnel as the complex adds addtional mass into it, thereby supporting it like some framework -- and it's actually going on in subspace, the circulating ring you see go up and down are actually part of that framework.

The problem is when they dont' instead they end up oscillating inside the tunnel. This makes a constant change in the field of subspace thereby making it stormy and unreliable, in some cases unusable - even that's not a major problem since, the stars gracity field will stabilize their vibration, and the other rings will damp and finally dissolve the straying complex.

That's however not always the case. A light ring - or a ring coplex may end up so huge, that it sucks all the other ring into itself defiling other parts of tunnel - eventually collapsing it. The complex will remain inside its own pocket of subspace.
However this ring will reach a stable state where it's internal will "cool down" and archieve a constant formation. If it stetches out enough the stars will end up recreating the tunnel during milenias -- or seconds, since we speak of oscillation it can be very erratic. If not it may be closed for an eternity - or until something destabilises the system.

These disturbances can also create local extensions to the tunnel - they may end up sucking debris in from deep space, or connect the tunnel with another tunnel or create an acces point to a new system. Even whole interconnected subspace tunnel systems may exist, but since these tunnel are very chaotic and erratic compared to "ordinary", peaceful ones; GTVA hasn't taken any measures to exploit them (furthermore few pilots are willing to enter a tornado made of Heaven's Shine and Hell's Fire).
(Such a things happen in Derelict)

Actually the chance for a great disturbance is low, since the other rings and the pull of the stars provide constant damping. Furthermore to have a juggernaut complex it would take extreme levels of energy and a great deal of luck. -- However with the more energy in the tunnel the chances go up, so it too much energy is released into a tunnel during a too short period of time there's a good chance it will cause a subspace storm.

The Knossos is a device to counter this problem, though it can't reach juggernaut complexes, it can damp and storms, but intercepting the rings and providing a constant; force to pull them in one direction -- though long term usage actually deconstructs the lightframe of the tunnel it can clean it of storms (long term = millions of years), so it's not advisable to apply them everywhere.
However so tunnels are constantly flooded with energy *like the Maelstorm of Gamma Draconis - so it's impossible to have them without "constant maintinance".

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Location: Budapest - Hungary
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Thanks for the compliment.
I'll try to explain it a bit more:

(This is gona be a "big boring physics explanation" skip if you wish.)

I already mentioned, but maybe I didn't put it the right way. Electro-magnetic waves (such as light, gamma-rays, radio waves ect.); have mass as well this is minimal compared to matter(actually matter has waveform qualities, but for a proton the wavelengt is so huge it's hardly noticable).
Max Planc suggested that energy is not a constant thing it rather travels in the form of small pockets or quantums in other words. This explains how can electo-magnetic radiation dissipate as it does. For if energy were to spread in a constant stream, where on eath would starts or any radiating matter get the energy hence it would spreads in an infinity and would thereby mean an infinite level of enrgy.
For a single photon (the particle of light, or rather a quantum of light) the equation is the following(anyone into physics feel free to correct me; it's been quite a while since I learned quantum physics ):
E = h*f (f is the frequency; h is the Planck constant = 6.62545 *E-34 Joule s)
f=c/L (c is the speed of light = 3 * E80 m/s; L=lambda which equals wavelength)
E=mc2 (The classic Einstein formula)
h*f=mc2
m=h*f/c2
Lets take an example:
The wavelength is 500 nm (nanometer = 5 *E-7 (10 on the 7th index I hope I translated it to English the right way wish I could write actual equations); This puts the energy of a singel photon around 3.98* E-19 Joules. Very-or rather nano tiny. Now lets take a look at the mass: divide that quantity with the square of lightspeed which is 300.000 m/s.
So the mass of a single photon is 4.422* E-30 kg. No matter at all in real life terms.
But how many photons are present in and ordinary stream of light. Let's take for easiness a 2W green laser. 2W means its releases 2J of energy in the form of light every second. The wavelengt is (accidently ) 400nm. We already know that the energy of a photon in thet frequency is 3.98 *E-19 J (Laser emit a coherent beam of light, so all the photons are of the same wavelength). So it's a simple division:
N= 2 *E0 J/3.98 *E-19 J = 5 *E18 (N the number of photons), which is great bunch, no wonder they look like a continuos stream.
So the mass of the light emitted during a second is
5 * E18 (the number of photons) * 4.422 * E-30 (mass of single photon) = 2.211 * E-11 which is 22.11 nanograms.

(This is casual Freespace stuff)
Well this is mainly my idea, a simplier explanation would be that gravity can interfere as well, but that hasn't been proven so far.

The problem with huge explosions inside subpsace is not the matter of energy, since it can't be greater then the mass from which it was created. It's rather the way it spreads. EMwaves can interfare with eachother a lot more easier than matter (put the mass of a proton into the Einstein formula than aply the Planc formula -- the wavelength is gona be huge; it's practically impossible for matter - as you can see

EMwaves and matter are quite equal, just two faces of the same thign- in our terms to interfare).
Another thing is that space wraps in a strange way in an interstellar subspace tunnel, it somehow bends onto itself on the endges, so by going forward (truly ahead not just seemingly) you can return to your starting position. Imagine a ray of light (or any other EMwave) go normal to the tunnel, it would end up going in a ring never escaping onits own. What's the porblem with that? Nothing, but these rings are stil affected by gravity. So they end up going in spirals toward the source of the gravity - one of the stars at each end of the subspce tunnel where they enter one of the spherical subspace globes where the subspace is too stable for them to have any effect.

However if a lot of EMWaver are released into the tunnel, their mass could create a severe disturbance. How? - one would ask if we already pointed out that it can be not greater than that of the fuel the spacecraft used and from which they were created. For once we can certainly state that ships alone don't destabilize subspace tunnels.

The problem lies in the nature of light rings and light corkscrews (best term I could come up wiht ). They tend to interfere with
eachother, and also sway each other by their sheer mass. What if they created a complex, that has enough mass and integerity to keep it from falling into the gravity well of either of the stars? Well no big deal that would actually stabilize the tunnel as the complex adds addtional mass into it, thereby supporting it like some framework -- and it's actually going on in subspace, the circulating ring you see go up and down are actually part of that framework.

The problem is when they dont' instead they end up oscillating inside the tunnel. This makes a constant change in the field of subspace thereby making it stormy and unreliable, in some cases unusable - even that's not a major problem since, the stars gracity field will stabilize their vibration, and the other rings will damp and finally dissolve the straying complex.

That's however not always the case. A light ring - or a ring coplex may end up so huge, that it sucks all the other ring into itself defiling other parts of tunnel - eventually collapsing it. The complex will remain inside its own pocket of subspace.
However this ring will reach a stable state where it's internal will "cool down" and archieve a constant formation. If it stetches out enough the stars will end up recreating the tunnel during milenias -- or seconds, since we speak of oscillation it can be very erratic. If not it may be closed for an eternity - or until something destabilises the system.

These disturbances can also create local extensions to the tunnel - they may end up sucking debris in from deep space, or connect the tunnel with another tunnel or create an acces point to a new system. Even whole interconnected subspace tunnel systems may exist, but since these tunnel are very chaotic and erratic compared to "ordinary", peaceful ones; GTVA hasn't taken any measures to exploit them (furthermore few pilots are willing to enter a tornado made of Heaven's Shine and Hell's Fire).
(Such a things happen in Derelict)

Actually the chance for a great disturbance is low, since the other rings and the pull of the stars provide constant damping. Furthermore to have a juggernaut complex it would take extreme levels of energy and a great deal of luck. -- However with the more energy in the tunnel the chances go up, so it too much energy is released into a tunnel during a too short period of time there's a good chance it will cause a subspace storm.

The Knossos is a device to counter this problem, though it can't reach juggernaut complexes, it can damp and storms, but intercepting the rings and providing a constant; force to pull them in one direction -- though long term usage actually deconstructs the lightframe of the tunnel it can clean it of storms (long term = millions of years), so it's not advisable to apply them everywhere.
However so tunnels are constantly flooded with energy *like the Maelstorm of Gamma Draconis - so it's impossible to have them without "constant maintinance".

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location:
Posts: 1234

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zolee
Send data by gravity?
Why do it if it's only 10% faster than light - it woulf still take decades to reach another solarsystem.

---

__________________
Questions about FS3? Questions about Fred? Questions about missions? Questions about adding new ships to your games?

[URL=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/intro.html]Karajorma's Freespace FAQ [/URL] (now with added GE goodness)

Supreme Overlord of The Mercury Affair Campaign.

FREDder, Modder, Story design and general busybody for [URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/Background.html] Mind Games[/URL]

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Location:
Posts: 1234

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zolee
Send data by gravity?
Why do it if it's only 10% faster than light - it woulf still take decades to reach another solarsystem.

---

__________________
Questions about FS3? Questions about Fred? Questions about missions? Questions about adding new ships to your games?

[URL=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/karajorma/freespace/intro.html]Karajorma's Freespace FAQ [/URL] (now with added GE goodness)

Supreme Overlord of The Mercury Affair Campaign.

FREDder, Modder, Story design and general busybody for [URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/Background.html] Mind Games[/URL]

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

"In the end, all those little pennies add up."

__________________
Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

Leagacy at the [VBB] - October 2001 - April 2002 - 555 posts
[url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th]The 158th[/url]

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Posts: 423

"In the end, all those little pennies add up."

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Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

Leagacy at the [VBB] - October 2001 - April 2002 - 555 posts
[url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th]The 158th[/url]

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Budapest - Hungary
Posts: 32

Heh... Gravity turned out to travel exacltly with the speed of light.
They got the result by measuring the light's deviation.
<Deviation? What is this talking about?>
Well as you remember light has mass as well so it's influenced by gravity. So it's swayed by a planet, so a stars image may not appear where it should (it actually appears close to the object).
What they measured was not that, but the fact that if gravity is not traveling at infinite speed, that angle would be altered a little bit, being less than it should be anticipated - of course it needed enourmous precisity. They picked the Jupiter since it has quite a mass, and examined the stars that were next to it - or rather how their position changed when it passed in front of them.

About subspace, yes they indeed add up a lot, since almost all nodes are actualy depending on them to create frame, however energy pollution can bring the whole system down, so in a sense all nodes are only in a state of stability *FS2 mentions that wormholes have a varying range of lifespans.

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Budapest - Hungary
Posts: 32

Heh... Gravity turned out to travel exacltly with the speed of light.
They got the result by measuring the light's deviation.
<Deviation? What is this talking about?>
Well as you remember light has mass as well so it's influenced by gravity. So it's swayed by a planet, so a stars image may not appear where it should (it actually appears close to the object).
What they measured was not that, but the fact that if gravity is not traveling at infinite speed, that angle would be altered a little bit, being less than it should be anticipated - of course it needed enourmous precisity. They picked the Jupiter since it has quite a mass, and examined the stars that were next to it - or rather how their position changed when it passed in front of them.

About subspace, yes they indeed add up a lot, since almost all nodes are actualy depending on them to create frame, however energy pollution can bring the whole system down, so in a sense all nodes are only in a state of stability *FS2 mentions that wormholes have a varying range of lifespans.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Nowhere, Nowhere
Posts: 423

quote:

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Originally posted by Zolee
Well as you remember light has mass as well so it's influenced by gravity.

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__________________
Freedom suppressed and again regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered." -Cicero
"Comple others: do not be compelled by them." -Sun-tzu
"Black holes are where God divided by zero." -Steven Wright
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon

Leagacy at the [VBB] - October 2001 - April 2002 - 555 posts
[url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th]The 158th[/url]

Last edited by ns33 on 01-19-2003 at 02:15 AM

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