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quote:

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[i]Beam weapons only penetrate shields because of a bug in the FS2 code. If life were governed by bugs and mistakes, then the Colossus may still be alive due to the mission designer forgetting to beam-free-all the Sathanas [/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by karajorma
When you get to the shivans volition did a better job. Years after the games release we are no clearer about their motives, culture or even social structure.

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lol, is that good or bad for the community. This thread and the "subspace" thread both started with such a simple sentence that it developed into multi-page scientific responses.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ns33


lol, is that good or bad for the community. This thread and the "subspace" thread both started with such a simple sentence that it developed into multi-page scientific responses.

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I think it's good. It means that campaign designers are free to decide what they think the shivans are up to.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zolee
Well I have to agree that the Vasudans are too human - in their appearance and phisiology; but I still think Volition did a great job.
It only appears that we understand them, still nothing is known about their culture; check the tech reference - I love the way the whole is bent around language.
Just because we could figure their messige doesn't mean we understand them - the Vasudans are still just as mysterious as the Shivans.
We don't know anything about them, except that they live in a layered society lead by a king - but this could be anywhere from the Frank Empire, to an Enligtened Absolute Monarchy.
Furtheremore we don't know much about their everyday life - their ideas, their concept - almost nothing.
Only messages that they either want to do this or that in a mission - but never the reason!

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It does actually say somewhere in FS2 (in one of the tech room briefing I believe) that the vasudans have a similar culture and politics to our own.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zolee
Another note: if there is too much similarity to be accidental, then it's not. - Maybe the ancients did more than what meets the eye

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Another theme from MindGames except that there it wasn`t the ancients doing the meddling

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Last I remember from either BWO, BEL, or some other campaign, Ancients looks like bugs... I'll see if I can pull up a picture somewhere.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zolee
We don't know anything about them, except that they live in a layered society lead by a king - but this could be anywhere from the Frank Empire, to an Enligtened Absolute Monarchy.

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-The British.

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There are two other points put forward about the Shivans in both games. In the first game it suggests that the Shivans are in some way preservers. They don't routinely go around killing all other species, they only attack the races that have entered subspace and made war on others. The second, as Bosch mentions, is that they have presumably wiped out a large number of races with each new civilisation built on the bones of the previous civilisations.

The Shivans annihilated Vasuda prime in such as way that it would be hard to tell that anyone used to live there.

As for the Lucifer vs. the Sathanas shielding question, it's worth asking what happened to the Shivans after the Lucifer was destroyed. They only reappeared after the Knossos device was reactivated. Actually there's a small contradication in that as well. Bosch says that the nebula is where the Ancients first encountered the Shivans. If that's the case why is there another Knossos device in the nebula and another again through the second device. I can only assume the Shivans they ran into in the nebula were defeated but they ran into more later. In any case I suspect the Lucifer fleet might have a sleeper fleet left by the Shivans after they defeated the ancients. The ancients turned off the Knossos device to try and stop the Shivan advance but the Lucifer fleet were already in their territory and wiped them out. They then went to "sleep" until the Terran-Vassudan war woke them up. The remaining Shivans kept advancing in technology and had all new craft when the second war broke out. Since they knew that the Lucifer had failed they didn't bother with shielded capital ships this time.

The main question I have is why they made Capella go supernova. I have a dim suspicion that the nebula might have been created when the Shivans created another supernova.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Holywhippet
In any case I suspect the Lucifer fleet might have a sleeper fleet left by the Shivans after they defeated the ancients. The ancients turned off the Knossos device to try and stop the Shivan advance but the Lucifer fleet were already in their territory and wiped them out. They then went to "sleep" until the Terran-Vassudan war woke them up. The remaining Shivans kept advancing in technology and had all new craft when the second war broke out. Since they knew that the Lucifer had failed they didn't bother with shielded capital ships this time.

The main question I have is why they made Capella go supernova. I have a dim suspicion that the nebula might have been created when the Shivans created another supernova.

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Now that's an interesting idea Everyone always assumes that the shivans used jump nodes too unstable for GTVA craft but it is possible that the shivans couldn`t reactivate the knossos and simply went to sleep waiting for a race to appear that could.

About what Bosch says in his monologues, I'd take everything with a pinch of salt. Bosch may have been correct but he might have simply been a loon. There is no evidence of other civilisations apart from the ancients (in fact Bosch simply asks "what if?" ) and he may have simply been wrong about the shivans first encountering the ancients in the nebula. In fact the ancients monologues from FS1 point against this (they talk about how the shivans wouldn`t die and how they couldn`t take shivan systems from them)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I suppose that Lucifer was a prototype ship, or only one of it's class was ever made. There is probably some logical reason why only Lucifer has such super shields.

Perhaps Sathanas class is even older ship class than Lucifer is. It seems that Sathanases are even larger in numbers than regular destroyers are. Or so FS2 hints.

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quote:

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Bosch says that the nebula is where the Ancients first encountered the Shivans

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tar-Palantir
Okay at this point V probably didn't have any idea's about the Shivans.

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ST was fan-made.

Take a look on the back of the FS2 box. "They are wondering what happened to their scouting party." I'm still not sure what that means, because if the then-formed GTVA had destroyed a "scouting party," the alliance would not have been informed of the first Shivan presence in the attack of the Aeolus cruiser.

When you speak of the Hive Mind, are you talking about the Borg-like processing of a central entity, something like the buggers (Ender's Game), or something like a nanoswarm (Prey)?? All "hive-minds", all different.

The only problem to the theory that the Shivans share a mind is, where is the central processing entity??

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quote:

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Originally posted by ns33

Take a look on the back of the FS2 box. "They are wondering what happened to their scouting party." I'm still not sure what that means, because if the then-formed GTVA had destroyed a "scouting party," the alliance would not have been informed of the first Shivan presence in the attack of the Aeolus cruiser.

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quote:

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Originally posted by karajorma
I think they are refering to the Lucifer fleet as the scouting party.

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Oh my. That's not good news.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ns33


Oh my. That's not good news.

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The thought itself that the Lucy was only a scouting party makes me cringe in... thought. You cant defeat such massive firepower. The Shivans were able to find their way aback into GTVA space after the destruction of the Sol - Delta Serpentis jump node, so its very likely that they'll make a come back again soon. Just depends on when, and where...

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Yeah it is pretty clear the lucifer was part of a scouting party (said so in the back of the freespace box ) And i reckon the hundreds of juggernauts were the main fleet. My prediction, thousands of icenis, led by the egyptian sungod RA will finally destroy the GTVA. Then the union will be saved by the detonation of bosch beer in the beta aquilae jump node, which will trap them in the system. hmmm... sounds good

By the way Kudos to ace on locking that thing, like a certain author would say...

"you da man now dawg"

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HEADZ PARTY!! (There should be a headz emotion icon )

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The thing is, if the Lucifer fleet was just a scouting party, why was there no follow up? It's possible the Sathanas class ships couldn't travel through the unstable nodes that the Lucifer went through but at the end of Freespace the Terrans and Vasudans aren't in great shape so you'd think they could send more of the same type of ship they'd already sent.

I suppose you could argue that whatever node they came through might have only been temporarily open and they sent a scouting wing to check that part of space.

It just seems odd that the Shivans didn't show up again until Bosch reactivated the Knossos device. For that matter, was the Knossos creating an artificial jump node or was it stablising an existing one?

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What if this is all a bad dream and at the end of the next Freespace game you wake up and realize you're late for work...

What if the collossus wasn't really destroyed, perhaps it was assimilated... Don't those beams look like tractors to you?

What if I told you I am the hive mind... and you will all be assimilated?

Would you LIKE to be assimilated? Even if it meant free continental breakfasts every mornign?

What if the Santanas are actually living breathing ships, and the lil "Shivans" are like cells...

What if... what if you REALLY crazy people decided to continue this list?

What if the Lucifer was named Santanas and the Santana named Lucifer.

What if the hive mind turned out to be soem black dude. "Yo what's up homie G. Prepare to be assimilated yo."

What if I shutup now?

What if...

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Santana?
*imagines a Shivan strumming a guitar*
o_O

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quote:

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Originally posted by RangerKarl
Santana?
*imagines a Shivan strumming a guitar*
o_O

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