Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

quote:

---

Originally posted by Londo Molari
SO what if the Omega has more fighters than a primus? The Centauri have more primuses than the EA has Omegas!!!

And as for Vorchans being vulnerable to fighters, if a Vorchan fleet speeds in, blows up capital ships in single volley, and runs away, what is the fighter gonna do?

Obviously EA cap ships wont just stand there and will blow some holes in the Vorchan, and may stop it

but overall, EA will only be able to defend its self.

And I heard somewhere that the Centauri Were afraid of the Minbari, but were almost close to their strength

---

__________________
"I'm not saying anything. I didn't say anything then, and I'm not saying anything now." -Dukath

FREDer for [url=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/index.htm]Honour of Omega[/url]
Creator of Movements in the Mist campaign

Oh ****! Those idiots did it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 436

Centauri Fleet is mostly vorchans, and they still have more primuses than omegas

that tells you how big their fleet is.

I'm not saying They're as technologically advanced as the minbari, but I'm saying due to their larger fleet (yes centauri fleet is larger than minbari) they come closer to minbari strength than any other race

Inerceptors can try stopping centauri weapons, but you saw what happened when the primus attacked B5... only a little incoming fire was blocked, and 1 of the prongs was blown off

and Babylon 5 is more powerful than an Omega or 2 hyperions, I think, considering B5+2 omegas beat 2 hyperions+2 omegas in severed dreams

__________________
I have carefully selected the following words of wisdom for my signature:
"Gravity, you win again." - Zap Brannigan.
"Real men over-clock their modems!" - Vertigo.
"Death to SIERRA/TNT/XOOM/Fortunecity" - Me.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

OK, so Babylon 5 + 48 Starfuries are marginally better than 2 Hyperions + 12 Starfuries. That doesn't make Babylon 5 too great (probably a bit less than an Omega due to the X-ray lasers) and yet B5 and one Hyperion too out a Primus for minimal damage. Again, not that that battle shows how good/bad B5 or the Primus is but shows how important fighters are. [Got there eventually after much rambling]

Yes the Centauri fleet is (was) large at 'In the Beginning' but has been slowly eroded with wars against the Narn, Drazi, etc. The state of the fleet is not too bad though as only a year later they mount a major compaign against multiple races at once!

I think who would win would depend mainly upon how many fighters got involved in particular battles along with the tactics used. As I've said before, I don't think that the EA would have the stomach for the tactics required to win a war against the Centauri. I do think that the Centauri have the guts to bombard Earth though (whether they could get past the GOD satellites in addition to an EA fleet is another matter ).

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: barrow in furness
Posts: 138

we've been forgeting one main thing, are we including warlocks in this debate??? and maybe some omega-x's

__________________
"Give it a squeeze and check it's working"

Last edited by MCO Strife on 11-22-2001 at 06:47 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

Warlocks - probably only if you extrapolate equivalent Centauri technological advances over the next 10 years as well (e.g. The Balvarix Strike Carrier).

Omega-Xs - depends how you interpret no allies I guess. Clark had six Omega-Xs built in 2261 so you could argue that they could be used (but probably no more than that).

I don't think either would really be enough to tip the balance other than in one or two battles.

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 371

If we count in those ships, the odds will be very close.
A Primus wouldn't stand a chance against a Warlock or an Omega-x.

A Vorchan would be destroyed by a single blast from the Warlocks main beams.

Last edited by Starkiller on 11-22-2001 at 06:56 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: The Underdark
Posts: 153

I dont think G.O.D satellites are that great. In the Ea Civil war they all got blown up, I have no doubt that they were rebuilt but they were just nocked out of the sky. I dont think that a Omega is any stronger than a Primus, but the omega might have a little bit of a longer range with the beam cannons. Other than that I think the Centauri have the advantage in pulse weapons. As they said in a season five episode the Centauri weapons act like explosives and rip a ship apart instead of cutting it like normal pulse weapons. Now all of the EA's Omega X's where destroyed by the whitestars, so they dont have anymore of those, as to the Warlocks I dont really think the EA has very many of them because in a later episode of crusade they said only a handful of warlock and been made. Now since the centauri have the darkh in the background I would think that they are outfitting centauri ships with some shadow tech.

Galen

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

The only reason they got knocked out was they were programmed to fire on earth, if they werent the Rebel Fleet would have been wiped out. GOD satalites are designed to take out and destroy Minbari ships, i dont think a few Omega's will bother them.

__________________
See the Shivan Kill the Shivan

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 220

In AOG campaign atleast, when you start the campaign EA is considerably stronger because the Centauri flett must start with TWO THIRDS of it's fleet mothballed. In wartime the Centauri can restore 5,000 points in mothballed vessels per day. Thats about 14 Vorchans or 6 Primus (Vorchans are dirt cheap) When attacking the Centarui you have to press the advantage FAST because you won't have it for long. Almost all Centarui vessels ROCK against fighters. They are covered with twin array turrets and have the best wepons coverage of ANY race in B5. I hate going up against them with fighters. The best bet against the Centauri is long range bombardment. If you get to close you'll be dead. After about 1 month at war (game time) the Centauri have enough military strength to take on the Narn AND Earth Alliance.

The one time I played as the Centauri I moved my ENTIRE main fleet (composed at that time of 24 Primus, 60 Vorchans, 800 fightesr and over 600 gunboats) to a planet on the Rim to try to capture a derelict Firstones ship from a Minbari defence fleet. I came home to find EVERY SHIP FROM EVERY RACE exept the Minbari, had attacked Centauri Prime simultaniosly. I spent the rest of the campain hiding my fleet from place to place contemplating my revenge

Have you ever senn 600 Centarui gunboats open fire with battle lasers simultaniusly at the same target? It's a thing of beauty...

Last edited by Fuzzy Modem on 11-22-2001 at 10:13 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 7

I couldnt see the EA winning cause the centauri would be just out of a war, so their crews will be more experenced and they would have been building ships for a while.

THe EA would prolly hold out long enough for somone else to join the fight, the League or even the minbari (u never know).

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
Posts: 10

?

fuzzy what is this game you talk about?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 436

yeah!

what do you mean "have you ever seen 600 Centauri gunboats..."

AoG is RPG boardgames are they not? you dont get to SEE anything

or am i missing something?

__________________
I have carefully selected the following words of wisdom for my signature:
"Gravity, you win again." - Zap Brannigan.
"Real men over-clock their modems!" - Vertigo.
"Death to SIERRA/TNT/XOOM/Fortunecity" - Me.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 576

Has anyone thought about accuracy?

In "the Fall of Night" the Primus fired like 8-10 bursts without hitting a jack, and then, when the Inteceptors overheated it hit that fin partly. When B5 opened fire they hit with almost every single shot. And I think B5 is a bit larger target than a primus.

Last edited by pera on 11-23-2001 at 06:52 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

quote:

---

AoG is RPG boardgames are they not? you dont get to SEE anything

or am i missing something?

---

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 256

It's just beaitiful, to have a big imagination...

__________________
"Collision Alert, Collision Alert"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 220

We'll imagination and hundreds of little pewter models...

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2001
Location:
Posts: 220

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nova
fuzzy what is this game you talk about?

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

first got to say - if you turned all teh omegas into warlocks then the the centuaris would get a n ass whipping - the minbari would get an asswhipping and if the sahdows were still aroudn we could have a go at them too - the warlock is one mean ass mother of a ship

and i'd say there is little eveidence to suggest the centuari empire is that big - the hight of the empire was about a 100 years before the series began - most of there ships are very old indeed although the vorchans are newer

the vorchan is a great suprise assult vessel - - all its firepower is in the forward arc with little to no tracking ability - the ship might be manueverable but most ea ships are more than capible to tracking a target - the omegas wapons can shoot just about any direction adn the front and rear angles have some serious weapons potential from the x-ray lasers

b5 versus the primus - the reason part of b5 was blown away was becasue sheridan was hessitant to fire on it - notice that until the front prong was blown off b5 didn't fire back full firepower - once the desision to destroy that ship was taken it fell in seconds

god satelites - they are mean too - they were designed to stop sharlins - mamoth beam cannons and loads and loads of long range missiles and the reason they were taken out was the fact that they had been turned on earth - it wasn't until that point that sheridans forces really closed with them and enaged them and only extensive fighter screens and fighters enaeing them resulted in them being destroyed - not once did they fire there main beams

the centuari have been weakened for a long time - londo said they wanted to attach themselves to the earth alliance casue they were now a power and they weren't really anymore admitiedly that was the pilot epsiode but the theme does hold the centuari were considered weaker than the narn at the begining of the show only once hostilitys broke out and they discovered tehre tech was still better than the narns and they could win did they start a build up however after the ea minbari war the ea was obsessed with having a large military - hell after years of fighting they still managed to put 20,000 ships into earth orbit for the battle of the line -so image how large the fleet is now

weapons tech in general yeah the centuari are good - fast firing pulse weapons taht shread thourgh armour quite nicely as seen when they took part of b5 off - definatly better than the b5 red pulse guns - but in a fight i would much rather have the stonking great big green heavy plasma cannon slow firing but one hella alot of damamge

beams well x-ray lasers cant saw which are more poweful probally an almost exact copy - however check out the cool new blue beams the ea has - as seen on the omega x and as a plantary defence on mars - those were powerful indeed start fitting them on things and then ea beam tech is a big jump up - the god beams well i dont think the omega has the power requirements to carry one of those so we will elave those for the warlock

fighters - judging by the design of fighters by teh drazi etc they designed heavy fighters to fight the sentris - this suggests that there weaposn are not great so they rely on speed an maneverabilty - however teh st and tb both have great manverability and the tb has good speed too so i think with there heavier amrous they would be a match for the sentri - the thunderbolt was afterall devoloped to counter the nail a far superior fighter - while its still outclasses by the nial i think it syhould be able to take a sentri

omega x would whip an centauri fleets asses - 1 hit would destroy a white star and the white star is far faster and got better weapons and and stronger hull than vorchan and very few of the white stars that entered that battle came back i doubt centauir weaposn would be very effective agaisnt that armour - if beams took ages to cut through it i think it would take avery large number of vorcahns and even primus to destroy 6 omega x's

the centauri fleet was certainly vast at its hight but even at that point htey were scared of the minbari - even if the minbari were concerned about them they temselves clearly knew there ships were not good enough to face down minbari ships even in vastly greater numbers - as i understand it - the centauri didn't fight the dilgar cause they were afriad there tech was quite a similar level so they would be hurt badly if they aught them they just made it clear to the dilgar that they would pay dearly if they invaded centauri space - now while the the ea was still a tech baby they took on the dilgar and won - with the help of the league i grant you but its clear the league was almsot beaten when the ea joined the fight and whipped there asses no boubt however at a great proptional loss

i'd say the ea has faught several campaigns recently - the dilgar war - the minbari war which while the lsot the learned from - afterward while teh shadow war was going on - you'll notice not s ingle ea ship ever got involved - not one our fleet was intact - and a large contingent of ships the entire centuari prime defence fleet was wasted by the vorlons

with our large territory and vast reasources equal to if not greater than centuari resources after there expansion - i think the ea would win at the time period of the ea civil war and 6-10 years later with the warlocks in service and little centauri advancement due to the state of centauri prime and the fact they seems not to develope new tech on a regular basis - the warlocks would whip the centuari all the way to the rim and back and i still consisder the victory class to be a human ship it was designed by us made by us - we jsut borrowed minbari engines -jump drive - and weapons (although there is plnety of evidence of human weapons too- but mostly anit fighter stuff) and of cource the big vorlon gun - the rest is human - including that damned handy armour - build afew of those and who hooo even more ass whipping going on

as for teh isa fleet helping to defeat teh drakh - there were not many of them - delen could only get afew there in time - and ea certainly couldn't get its entire fleet there in that amount of time yet the omegas and the odd warlock pounded on teh drakh destroyed the vast propotion of there fleet - by the end of the series the ea is only out gunned by the minbari and its questionable for how much longer - for example some of the tech described in that holo recreation of garibaldi etc that was beyond minbari capabilities and it wasn't that far in the future

sooooooooooo after all this WE WIN - the EA would whip the Centauri asses

__________________
Go Away you annoy me you pathetic blob

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

Assuming that I understood your crappy spelling ( ), I agree totally with you.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

These WHO-WOULD-WIN discussions are pointless and decrease the atmosphere of the game.

Combat is a highly dynamic situation , you can't come with infantile math.
"Lets see , we have 6 Omegas and 4 Vorchans , that makes an average damage of 1200 points per seconds , 4 shots , an Omega has 3000 Hitpoints , that means If 6 Omegas fight against 4 Vorchans 1 Omega gets destroyed and another one takes light to medium damage"

Don't you see how stupid this is ? Trust me , despite technical analysis it's much more fun if "everything is possible"

And now , as we germans say : SCHLUSS ! AUS ! ENDE ! FEIERABEND !

__________________
Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged