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quote:

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Originally posted by zoobafoo
So Mackie you are saying 8 meters of minbari hull is thicker than 2Km of solid rock? Dumbfire would help cuz a minbari cant hold up aginst photons!
The Breen sucked on Romulans, they have a better ship with more powerful weapons and reactors, and the Breen still beat them!
Since you said that I'll unleash my ultamite tactic, the Klingon bird-of-prey from STAR TREK VI outfitted with interphase cloak!HA!

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you have no idea what kind of rock the ground was and we dont know how thick is minbari armour.

romulans have more better ships? lol hey come on...

so? the cloak sucked!

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Ugh, that has to be one of the screwiest-looking Ambassador-class starships I've ever seen. Plus, I think we all know that Federation phasers are ORANGE not...hmm, looks like a White Star beam to me...

Anyways, a little info about Federation torpedoes.

• Photon Torpedo: matter/antimatter is mixed thoroughly while being separated by magnophoton force fields. Fields collapse and allow matter and antimatter to combine upon impact with target. Early models were just two slabs of matter and antimatter being slammed together by force of impact. Later versions included a core of antimatter being driven into a shell of matter, then packet mixing (the current incarnation).
  
  
• Quantum Torpedo: doesn't use matter/antimatter. Uses quantum filaments (the kinda stuff you'd find in a superstring fragment, you touch it and photons seem like a kick in the shin), maybe about 100 or so. Several orders of magnitude more powerful, but requires special storage bays, ordinance prep facilities, and launch systems, meaning they're a lot more expensive to produce than photons, and can only be equipped on properly refitted starships, limiting their deployment.
  

With this stated, we know that fusion weapons are like a firecracker compared to this stuff. So if a Sharlin can't survive a nuclear blast, what do you think will happen when it gets smacked by a blue orb of quantum filaments? Plus, Federation torpedoes are rated to the tens of thousands of kilometers in range, plus they go faster than .5 of lightspeed. Imagine the chaos if they had a Defiant or Galaxy at the Battle of the Line...

BTW, Feds shields are a graviton polarity field, which is basically a shaped gravity well. I'm theorising that if properly adjusted, a Fed shield projector could essentially bend a particle beam around the ship courtesy of the artificial gravity well. (Gravitons are believed to be, in theory, "gravity particles".)

Okay, okay, rant over.

BTW, Mackie, nice renders

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federation cant track minbari????? federation sensors rock - tehy can detect a vessel that cant even be seen - there sensors can spot ships ships still days away at warp speed - they can detect neutrinos from teh reactors of sharlins - how can you possibly know what kinda of hull the sharlin has and what effect it would have on transporters - the only thing that stops transporters in star trek is sheilds something minbari ships lack

phasers weak?????????????????????? did you see and epsidoe where the phaers of the enterprisewere used to drill striaght down halway to the core of th planet to hel relieve tecntoic stresses - and it wasn'ta small hole by nay means it was a huge great big one

photon torp contains anti matter - let me introduce you to E=MC^2 - fusion bomb greats alot of energy from a time bit of mass in teh fusion reaction - times the mass by the speed of light squared and you get the enregy - now anti matter is just the same but all the mass gets converted to energy resulting from a bomb of the same mass a weapon that is litterally millions of times more powerful - quatum torpedo's use a zero point energy souce quatum inflation triggered but an antimatter explosion the resulting explosion is that of aprox 10 photon torpedos - end result is that the quantum torpedo is more than enough to take out a sharlin and anything without great shields within a couple hundred miles even in teh vacum of space without a shockwave to hurt them

federation sheilds ona glaxay class can stop 1 or 2 of these cold - that makes them the best defensive measure ever - hell the sheilds of the enterprise can let it hide in teh corona of a star for F**ks sake they effortlessly held back temps of over a million degrees C for i cant rmemeber how long - hell a shuttle managed to surve a stars corona with metaphasic sheilds

back to torps the standard issue federation torp yeild was in the iso ton range i dont know if its real or not but the implication is its either very very very vbery big or its so big they needed to invent a new energy measureing system

and also phasers use nadion particles which cause molecular and atomic diassotiation in tother words molecules fall apart and atoms explode not jsut from the raw energy but due to the nature of the weapon - normal lasers are completely ineffectual against sheilds as stated in the outraous okonza or something - was something liekt aht suffice it to say shiops with x-ray laser weapon were threating to shot the enterprise and copatin picard order the sheilds lowered - becasue sarcastically incase they wanted to surrender - - riker stated that they wouldn't even penetrat the navigational defelctors never mind the shield grid

next point the neterpsie is fo much fast than a nial a star fury any ship in b5 in sublight speed its not funny - half the speed of light attainable almost instantly from a stand still impulse only can approach from warp fire torp and never even leave warp so the b5 ships could even see the attack coming the torp would hit at warp speed lol

in one epsidoes voyager managed to escape from the event horizon of a black hole - i would love to see a b5 ship do that

in star trek they have the firepower to blow up stars witha single torpedo create planets out of nebulas - or use on planets to kill every living thing on teh planet - - species 8472 with afew fighter sized ships blew awa an entire planet - more firepower than vorlon planet killer in a ship about the size of a vorlon transport - even the hand gusn are more powerful - have you ever seen a ppg vaporise a person with no trace left even the smallest hand held pahsers are caible of doing that - fusions power is the source of energy for b5 antimatter warp core and fusions for impusel provides the energy for star trek - my god people - only a fool would ever contest that b5 is better tech and mroe powerful - hell b5 rotates bvecasue they cant even do anti gravity well yet

ok i ranted enough but enough b5 is a great series but the tech just isn't on the same level - hell i think jms once said he wanted the tech to be less advanced to give it a more real feeling - something closer to what could be done - the only thing in earth alliance we cant really do at the moment is the jumpgates

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Last edited by KillMeNow on 09-17-2001 at 01:48 AM

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they also incorpate spacial distortions to prevent things like lasers from penerating and to help with energy weapons teh graviton feild is for mass weapons like torpedos etc adn particle beams =)

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got my tech manaual here effective combat range of a photon torp is 750,000 km (sublight launch) carries 1.5 kg of anti-matter so thats 3kg of ractain into energy - 25 isoton yeild

quantum torp - 52.3 isoton yeild
is a antimatter initated - zero point energy extraction

tri coblat device - is a further development of the quantum torpedo withe ven greater yeild - no figures but is not normally fitted on starships

tacticle range of phasers is 300,000km

back to torps at sub light launch speeds they can achieve a top speed of 0.993c

sheilds can handle 370,000 megajoules of heat before starting to come down - but thats wll all enrgy being vented - while will limit other systems as sucha s the pashers which can be used to vent the energy perhaps as a phaser beam that would be handy =) normally its about 270,000 megajoules without nay problems

normally sheild energy from 9 phased locked capacistance banks each puting out 2,579.3 megawatts each

about 23.2 terrawatts total

nothign concrete about the hulls and ablitive arour except that the ablative arour carries a large proption of incoming beam enrgy or torpedo detation away in a controled boli odd and in teh case of beam weapons creats a medium destitparticle cloud that helps disperse the incoming beam fire

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*sigh*

u just dont get it...

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nope you dont get it - star trek weapons are far superior

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quote:

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Originally posted by KillMeNow
nope you dont get it - star trek weapons are far superior

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if you believe so you are mislead.
i might not be the right person to talk about it but atleast i know what i am talking of, unlike you and few others.

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and of other matters;
ive made another rendering during the night because i got bored when loading B5 & Trek eps via Gnotella



the lightning seems kind of... edged and partial, not quite what i am capable of but i am 80% happy with that rendering.

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quote:

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Originally posted by KenChris
From what I remember from a couple of sites i have visited, the power of ether quantum or photon torps have never been stated, and through scientific extrapolation it was dtermined that the shields of a galaxy class starship are rather weak compared to the weapons in B5, as are the phasers. the laser cannon in the Omega can slice straight through the shields and hit the hull with one shot.
of course this is all from several months or even a few years ago.

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again...

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i told you the power of quatum torpedos taken from teh deep space nine techincal manaual at its beent ates on voyage for noraml torepdos several tims - tricobalt divices have a cpnfireable yeild and its some were upto a maxium of about 150-200 isotons - no a quatum torp at 52.3 isotons if they can be stoped by federation sheilding - how can they have been extropelated to be weak when not even the third space gate or shadow and vorlon ships can withstand a small nuclear explosion - even the nukes used on zahumdum were only 500 megatons thats poxy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! compare to federation torpedos - so i ask you what kinda of scientist extropal;ted there sheilds weakness? besdies how can you extropalte there weakness scititfically if not by seeing how they hand things like photon torps - just saying oh they are weak and not providing any back up to your arguements shows you arguements are flawed - i have gone and found stated figured regaruding the sheild power - and the photon and quantum torpedo strenght - phasers are less powerful yes but it weas in the reagion of around 5Mw per segement however multiple segemtns in each array can be combined to give a more powerful sustained blast - while this is less than the stated figured for b5 its more reaslistic becasue and here my proof

take a b5 fusion bomb - a device for which we know the aproximate yeild 500megaton - nothing survives it not even shadows ships - now take the the whitestars main beam how long did it take to punch through a shadow ship quite along time yet its main beam cannon is rated at god only knows how many terrawatts - that much energy concentrated in a small are would be far far far more destructive than a nuke - on earth we use aproximatly 3 terrawatts total - tahts teh entire out put of the planet - so if there weapon are of this power then they are the worst designed weapons ever cause you get very very very little bang for your buck

phasers on the other hand through the use of the rapid nadion effect which liberates the strong nuclear force can rip thing s to shreads with far less energy

but when raw energy is needed they trot out the torpedos - i rmember one episodes when the borg were first encounters and the enterprises sheilds had been drained and captiain picard ordered torpedos and data cauutioned him that without shields they might well destroy the enterprise aswell

so just stop pretending that your right and acknolwedge you dont know what your talking about you throw arguemtns about without substiateing them - while you like b5 better and seem to hate star trek - that doesn't mean that b5 ships are superior - i like b5 i prfer it to star trek (mostly) but i acknolwedge the fact that federation tech is alot more advanced - from gravity manipulatioin - to structural integrity feilds to inertial dampning - and to torpedos with yeidsl that make 500 megoton look like a firecracker anda small one at that just to clear this up - a 500megaton blast hitting the entprise with shields up would barely rock the ship - where it will destroy nay know ship other than perahps the vorlon planet killer and shadow planet killer

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mackie you clearly have the brains of a senile dinnosaur - - answer me this - which is a bigger bang - fusions bomb - antimatter bomb - answer that and you have you question to which shows weapons are more powerful

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and just so you can make an informed choice - matter - antimatter reactions are at pressent the more energy effient system ever - nothign can create more energy for the same amount of mass - except if you draw energy from zero point sources (like quantum torps) which is abit like using a small controlled big bang to shoot at your enenmy

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i would jsut liek to state that my figures come from teh offical star trek technical manuals - for the next gen and deep space nice - written by rich sternbach and micheal okuda with an introduction by gene roddenberry and the dsn one herman zimmerman - rich sternbach doug drexler with the intro by ira steven behr - thats as good as it coming direct from jms in b5

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as for the numbers in tech manual, they have conflicted with several ST episodes = therefore they are not canon.
much as canon as b5tech is.


on screen evidence is more important than whats been written on books or / and such .

antimatter bombs ofcourse, but wtf are they so weak still in the show?

i am going to stop arguing about this because ur being so dense about this and like i said, i am not the right person because i cant remember every single detail about b5 OR st. just the main frames...

go to spacebattles when its up again....

*leaves the thread*

.

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theya ren't weak you complete plonker the sheidsl are jsut damn strong - and from the show the weaposn yeaild was stated as 25 isotons star trek voyager - scorpion part 2 - and for the tri cobalt devices - check out the voyager conspiracy - so there it is canon - epsidoes where weak yields are seen on torps is explain by the fact they have controlable yeilds so if you need to use a torp cause you oput of range of pahsers adn you dont want to destroy the entire city where you are shoot at something then the yeild can be ramped down simply by removing some of the anitmatter - quatum torpedos strength has never been stated on tv so what rich sternbarch and micheal okuda say is the value

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talking of on screen evidence? species 8472?????? ship smaller than an omega blew away a planet? the federation has access to number weapons for destroying planets including teh genesis torpedo or they can just bombard it - dsn trial and tribaltions - an klingon armada oblterated the tribble homeworld - dsn the die is cast 20 normal romulan and cardasian ships plan to oblterate the founders homeworld but find it obandoned - but the first volley destroys 20% of the planetary crust

what to take of supreme weapons tech - sorans trilithium torpedo - 1 torpedo can blow up a star - a small protomatter bomb can do the same thing - thats better than any of the races in b5

another thing with metaphasic sheilds plasma weapons would be completely inefective - since theya re designed to hold back the stars corrona - a great big ball of plasma - lasers dont have any effect on sheilds at all and ar completely useless the waveform canceled as it trys to pass thrown the spacial distorion feild of the sheilds ( the outrageous okonka s/p)

and on screen b5? the only weapon strenghts mentioned are that of the nuked the largest figure mentioned being 500megaton described by g'kar as a terrible destructive force which as i pointed out is pretty poxy when compared to the alledged valuses for the beam weapons but since theyw ere stated in the show they could be anything - and if you bring up somoneone who designed the ships said then your into my area and must then acknolwege that my figures are right and that federation weapons are hence far superior

but as pointed out earlier observation suggests that the beam weapons aren't even close to the stated beam power when compared to a weapon for which in b5 weapon strengh was stated so there

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Definately trek has technologies far in advance of those on Babylon 5. That was sort of always the premise of the show, that what they were showing you was fantastic things that they could do.

Babylon 5 was not so techno-centric as Star Trek is and it developed along a different path. Arguing the two sides is sometimes difficult, but with the kind of arguments KillMeNow has been making, its pretty reasonable to assume that Star Trek vessels far outstrip anything we've seen on Babylon 5.

quote:

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on screen evidence is more important than whats been written on books or / and such

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Why have those EA ships got Drazi engines?

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your right about teh shows having different well evolution paths - i have a book somewhere and in it jms is quoted as saying that he wanted to show to have a more recognisable feel to the tech fantastic but not beyound the realms of believeablity for the next hundred or two hundred years - star trke is all about the - every problem in star trek is solved with some fancy piece of kit - which is one of the reasons that the majority of b5 shows are better than star trek - and teh story arc helps alot to - although star trek does now and then pull out a great episode

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