Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Tania Austrailis
Posts: 3322

If it were a whole war, the risk was too great. Had the Collosus not been such a success, even in it's demise, I'm sure that we'd have been whiped off the face of the universe.


BTW; Shivan question here: If the Shivans saw us as an insignificance, why even enter into our systems? Why Not just avoid the open node completely?

And... Had Bosh not opened the node, how would the Shivans have gotten to Capella? <valley girl lisp talk>This whole thing is so Bosh's fault </valley girl lisp talk>

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Kellan, the point I was trying to get across earlier is that for a powerful vessel, it has balance in it's weaknesses which have been planned out much like with the original Colossus.

The folly of many of the much-hyped superships is that they do not have planned out follies for existing FS-classes as well as their only counter is another, larger supership.

The Semnai is not designed as a center focus in the campaign like some of these aforementioned superships, the campaign revolves around the player and not simply the technology being fielded.

This vessel does fufill a nitche which the Vasudan Imperium has determined was needed to be filled in the post-Capella era, and it does that quite well thank you.

Edit: I'm just trying to make sure that everyone understands that I'm not trying to flame or say "this ship is better" like some folks might be reading between lines from what I said. It has a purpose in the campaign and balances well in it's plot and design as well as works well in the FreeSpace universe based as logically off of canon materials as possible.

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Ace
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[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 05-24-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

I like the smaller ships better anyhow...having a Colossus is nice, and reasonable as the centerpiece of a large war fleet, but for versatility you can't beat cruisers and vettes. Mobile, capable of AF/AC work equally well, reasonably tough, and not tied to a semi-fixed supply line like destroyers and their attendent fighters.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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That's a very reasonable thought.

However in pure logistics, it requires more support assets to field a corvette fleet than a single juggernaut. (i.e. fuel to ship ratio, etc.)

Juggs should be flagships and central assests of fleets, but all in all, they are in many ways cheaper to wield despite not being as flexible.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Lo-Fidelity All Star
Posts: 2273

True, you want a balance. Too many heavy ships, and the enemy will continually duck out of the way, massing only to hit undefended targets (a la rebel alliance).

Too few big ships, you'll never have the firepower to do enough damage to be a credible threat.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Neighbourhood AWACS
Posts: 173

And that's why we have mixed up fleets. What you have more of - fighter wings, 'vettes, destroyers or juggernauts, is usually determined by the strategy (eg. defensive -> more Mjolnir nets, less attack cruisers) and/or tactics (eg. forward-bearing or distributed weaponry) of the force in charge of them.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: The center of nowhere (FL)
Posts: 133

I dun care what ya got GImmie A Herc Mk1 with promethis S loadouts and you can SMELLLllllLlLLllLLlllllLLL, What the MEGA is cookin!

The Megas got the funk to take out any yo crazy mofo superships.

Shine up that Rockeye real nice and shove it up yer.. er Ill put my rock costume away now before the bad man with white jackets tell me to take me pills...


Anyone ever try and actually make a ship midsized that was fast and actually made you scared to go near it like the good ol faustus was? eh? .. sure it looks weak on the outside but when you give it nothing but antifighter beam cannons.. WEW! ... well your right it still sucks but its SURE funny!


EH?

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Registered: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 22

Excellent Ace,

sounds like there are going to be some interesting ships in the next episode(TBE).

I'm looking forward already to flying with/against the Conclave and the Shivans.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 1477

There are some nasty midfield ships in tBE

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

quote:

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The folly of many of the much-hyped superships is that they do not have planned out follies for existing FS-classes as well as their only counter is another, larger supership.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Actually I wasn't implying that about the Golgotha

Some *other* campaigns and mods though, yes

Edit: IceFire is definately right in that the Golgotha class is vunrible to bomber strikes, a well placed wing could level it real quick.

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Ace
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[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 05-29-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 1216

Okay Ace...now I understand more what you're on about. Sorry for any misunderstanding. I do agree that all ships should have weaknesses - even the Sathanas does, really - and ships should always be designed that way. You can't have everything all ways and it promotes more tactical, balanced play in FS2.

Which is my main problem with Juggernauts. Tactical and balanced they may be, but due to their sheer size they're hard to use in missions other than as set-piece attack/defence things - ie. it's difficult to use them as the target of bombing or whatever due to their overwhelming power. Bascially I favour smaller ships because they're easier and more varied and interesting in mission usage, rather than for logistical reasons. And as you pointed out, FS doesn't run on logic, it runs on the mythos of fun.

BTW, the Xanthus looks very cool. Hopefully [plug plug] people will be happy with the other ships in BWO that aren't the Golgotha as well - we have quite a few new ships. [/plug]

ICEFIRE: Yes, he is talking about BWO, and yes we have more than just the Golgotha

[This message has been edited by IceFire (edited 05-29-2001).]

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Derelict? Don't you mean BWO? :P (Edit: saving Snipes from having to make this comment )

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[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 05-29-2001).]

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Tania Austrailis
Posts: 3322

quote:

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Originally posted by Ace:
(Edit: saving Snipes from having to make this comment )

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Registered: Jul 2000
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Something else? What something else?

On weaknesses, the GVD Typhon and Hatshepsut also have weak turret subsystems.

It seems that on average Vasudan ships have strong hulls, weak shields, and weak weapon subsystems.

Shivan ships seem to be the exact opposite of that, while Terran ships are generally balanced.

On tBE, I'll admit that the campaign (a planned 14 missions) and the mods are about half the amount as in BWO. Despite this, the quality and time put into these, the non-linear options in the missions, as well as the plot should more than warrant a few play-throughs to see everything.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Pottsboro, TX USA
Posts: 289

I did learn this about the Hecate vs the Orion...As long as you have the Orion board side in the crossing the T formation to the Hecate, it will eat it for breakfast. Even the Santhanas could be killed by a Fenris as long as it didn't attack from the front.

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What? I'm not crazy! But the rest of you are!

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 179

the Phobos's main weakness stems from its exposed weaponry (most of the anti-fighter stuff is on those exposed launchers & cannons), meaning once it is disarmed...

*POOF* What corvette

it's hull armour is also susceptable to disruption... (ok, its subsystems are weak )

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 179

wait a sec...

was the use of a Lucifer in that size comparison just random pluckings or is there something else to it

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Finland
Posts: 553

quote:

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Originally posted by Ace:
Here's a little sample of some ships you'll be seeing in The Babel Effect.

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Featuring the Lucifer

The Golgotha paired with a couple of Aeoluses for fighter/bomber defence...
I think that weak subsystem/turrets are worse than a shortcoming in another area. I mean, weak fighter defence can be corrected with a few Aeoluses and weak anti-cap with a corvette or something. But if your ship is disarmed or disabled, it's pretty useless

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 179

quote:

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Originally posted by CODEDOG ND:
I did learn this about the Hecate vs the Orion...As long as you have the Orion board side in the crossing the T formation to the Hecate, it will eat it for breakfast. Even the Santhanas could be killed by a Fenris as long as it didn't attack from the front.

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