Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:

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Originally posted by IceFire:
...Perhaps there is a "queen"-shivan that controls the overall goals. As for achieving that goal, I do not know if it could be done.

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The Borg are also supposedly a "unity" hive-mind or whatever you want to call it. Now, while I thought that ST: First Contact was easily one of the better ST movies, the whole Borg Queen concept was not only corny, but ridiculous! It was like saying that a certain brain cell in the human brain is the one that ultimately makes all the decisions - nonsense! Just because we humans have a hard time imagining a true hive-mind organization doesn't mean that we should add individual leaders to our fictious hive-mind beings...

quote:

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Originally posted by Snipes:
If by doing so, they were to create internal conflict for millenia, there would be no point, Lucifer vs Lucifer, Sathani vs Sathani, and whatever they have past that versus itself, they would kill themselves out before anyside truly won.

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"...a house divided against itself..."
Actually, what you describe is quite likely, though not for the Shivans. Just look at us pathetic, warring human beings...



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"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

By me talking about a "queen" I by no means was implying that there would be such a being with such a purpose. I agree that its a silly concept, especially for the Shivans...but I was trying to get a relational approach to a core intelligence...that guides the overall actions. It happens in ant colonies and bee hives...which is the closest compairson we can draw to Shivans (even when the insect comparison is discouraged). There is always a hierarchy...

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Tania Austrailis
Posts: 3322

I like that... that the Shivans are like a force of nature...

I agree with these guys 100%, why would Shivans revolt? If by doing so, they were to create internal conflict for millenia, there would be no point, Lucifer vs Lucifer, Sathani vs Sathani, and whatever they have past that versus itself, they would kill themselves out before anyside truly won.

And also, what would they be fighting for, like Ice said, they don't seem to 0WN anything....

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

I get what you're saying, IceFire, but in ants and bees that heiarchy is instinctive. What is the purpose of queen ants and bees? They lay all the eggs - they maintain the population of the hive/ant-whatever. The queen ants and bees have no say in "decisions" whatsoever - no one does (aside from God who created them with their instincts).

So the question is simple: Do the Shivans act by pure instinct, or by a hive-mind, collective-concience type decision making process?

Personally, I think the latter.

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"He who laughs last thinks slowest."
"Just becase you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."
"To err is human; to really screw up you need a computer."

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Registered: Dec 2000
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hmmm anyone ever think what would happen if you got a schizophrenic hive mind.......

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Registered: Nov 2000
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Posts: 44

quote:

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Originally posted by Snipes:
[B/]

like Ice said, they don't seem to 0WN anything....[/B]

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Registered: Dec 2000
Location: Jerusalem, Israel
Posts: 928

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Carrot:
hmmm anyone ever think what would happen if you got a schizophrenic hive mind.......

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

I think I've basically said I was leaning towards pure instinct, but there is usually a giver of instructions. I'm pretty sure there are patterns of movement that a bee or wasp makes to indicate a certain instruction. So thats all I was getting at.

Shivans do communicate.

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