Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Why do you all want newtonian physics ?
It sucks , do not think the game will be more fun just because the physics model is more realistic when newtonian.

Some ideas, though they sound promising , are not automatically a gameplay improvement. If Counterstrike was realistic it would mean to get incapacitated on first hit , falling damage with recovery time ( stand up again ) , loss of control over own figure ( your character can panic and you cannot steer him any longer when under heavy fire , and and and.....

Newtonian physics, saw them in ELITE and it sucked. I prefer Freespace-XwingAlliance-WingCommander physics. It's simply more fun. So please no more "realistic physics" nonsense, god damnit ! If you had more experience with game design you wouldn't suggest it.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Why do you all want newtonian physics ?
It sucks , do not think the game will be more fun just because the physics model is more realistic when newtonian.

Some ideas, though they sound promising , are not automatically a gameplay improvement. If Counterstrike was realistic it would mean to get incapacitated on first hit , falling damage with recovery time ( stand up again ) , loss of control over own figure ( your character can panic and you cannot steer him any longer when under heavy fire , and and and.....

Newtonian physics, saw them in ELITE and it sucked. I prefer Freespace-XwingAlliance-WingCommander physics. It's simply more fun. So please no more "realistic physics" nonsense, god damnit ! If you had more experience with game design you wouldn't suggest it.

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Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
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I used to play a game called Terminus, which had full Newtonian physics. Just flying n that was pretty damn hard, having a twisting turning dogfight was a MASSIVE challenge. But it was fun, however dogfighting with more then three baddies was next to impossible.

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Registered: Feb 2001
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Posts: 397

Newtonian physics doesn't always suck...rather again it's a combo of lots of elements.

For example in I-War (the original one), the newtonian physics really fits into it. But I for one didn't feel it was really utilized. Sure you could do all kinds of neat manouvers and such, but you didn't have to. AI was so dumb, once again, and almost all the missions were based on being outnumbered. Of course that is the case in FS2 also, but in it, that's how it's supposed to be.

Newtonian games require an AI and other game "attributes" that would make it worth it. What that means for us, it would do nothing but distract us from the really important stuff that really matters.

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Registered: Feb 2001
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Posts: 31

Newtonian physics doesn't always suck...rather again it's a combo of lots of elements.

For example in I-War (the original one), the newtonian physics really fits into it. But I for one didn't feel it was really utilized. Sure you could do all kinds of neat manouvers and such, but you didn't have to. AI was so dumb, once again, and almost all the missions were based on being outnumbered. Of course that is the case in FS2 also, but in it, that's how it's supposed to be.

Newtonian games require an AI and other game "attributes" that would make it worth it. What that means for us, it would do nothing but distract us from the really important stuff that really matters.

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Registered: Dec 2001
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The AI in Terminus was pretty good. Of course it could also be pretty stupid. For example the pirate that took a potshot at me on my way back to the base, and when i tried to disengage-got in front of me. Dumb, real dumb. On the other hand on many a mission I got scragged by enemy gunners.

The computer knew how to maneuver better than I did, but the makers of the game also set it up as a different kind of combat. Instead of twisting, truning dogfights it was more like a joust. Approach, shoot, decellerate, turn around and do it again. It's a different kind of combat that you really have to get used to. Steep learning curve.

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: THE BEST DAMN ROGUE NATION ON EARTH!!!
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The AI in Terminus was pretty good. Of course it could also be pretty stupid. For example the pirate that took a potshot at me on my way back to the base, and when i tried to disengage-got in front of me. Dumb, real dumb. On the other hand on many a mission I got scragged by enemy gunners.

The computer knew how to maneuver better than I did, but the makers of the game also set it up as a different kind of combat. Instead of twisting, truning dogfights it was more like a joust. Approach, shoot, decellerate, turn around and do it again. It's a different kind of combat that you really have to get used to. Steep learning curve.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: University Park
Posts: 268

Ooh, something I had almost forgotten about. Mayhap there can now be a really full sized VPK? Though I suppose what purpose it could actually have in a mission would be dubious.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

I think Tachyon has a good compromise between newtonian- and the youknowhat physics... You have the agility and precision like in FS-WC-XWing-etc. But were able to do those cool slide manuvers thanks to the slide button.
If that can be made to work in FS2 is another matter alltogether...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Joutsa, Finland
Posts: 564

I think Tachyon has a good compromise between newtonian- and the youknowhat physics... You have the agility and precision like in FS-WC-XWing-etc. But were able to do those cool slide manuvers thanks to the slide button.
If that can be made to work in FS2 is another matter alltogether...

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Oh ****! Those idiots did it.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
Posts: 1755

Freespace doesn't need newton laws. If I want newton laws I play I-war

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
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Freespace doesn't need newton laws. If I want newton laws I play I-war

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"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
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Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
Posts: 1755

Freespace doesn't need newton laws. If I want newton laws I play I-war, there are no reason to make Freespace a I-war

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"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
-Shogun Tokugawa

Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

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Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
Posts: 1755

Freespace doesn't need newton laws. If I want newton laws I play I-war, there are no reason to make Freespace a I-war

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"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
-Shogun Tokugawa

Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Mönchengladbach, NRW, Germany
Posts: 2886

But the newton thing is a central feature in the B5 battles...don't get me wrong here...I also prefer a good gameplay rather than this pseudo realism...but without the newton thing it will never be completely B5-fish...but...now here comes the question again. Does it need to be exactly like in the show?
My vote: "No"

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Mönchengladbach, NRW, Germany
Posts: 2886

But the newton thing is a central feature in the B5 battles...don't get me wrong here...I also prefer a good gameplay rather than this pseudo realism...but without the newton thing it will never be completely B5-fish...but...now here comes the question again. Does it need to be exactly like in the show?
My vote: "No"

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Last edited by Black Sheep 2000 on 05-04-2002 at 06:31 PM

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 227

but what u see in the show, is all Visual Effects and CG but this is well how can i put it semi-real-life. The people making the show, can do anything they want some things not possible even with full newtonian physics. So applying it to a game never designed with that kinda physics in mind is not gonna be easy, and any of the moves u would want to do as seen in the show, are gonna be hard if not impossible

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Registered: May 2002
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Posts: 3

Skullar: Why would do I want Newtonian Physics? Because nobody has really done it "right" yet. There are plenty of "fly-by-wire" flight sims out there. Part of what makes the idea of a space flight sim interesting (for me that is) is that it is in space, and the idea of piloting in a vacumn is very appealing. One of the options that made ItF (RIP) interesting was the ability to fly with Newtonioan Physics or a computer aided "fly-by-wire"system. Would it be possible for the TBP team to do something like that with the source code? If so that would be a great option for all of the players that would like Newtonian physics and for the players that like "fly-by-wire".

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Registered: May 2002
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Skullar: Why would do I want Newtonian Physics? Because nobody has really done it "right" yet. There are plenty of "fly-by-wire" flight sims out there. Part of what makes the idea of a space flight sim interesting (for me that is) is that it is in space, and the idea of piloting in a vacumn is very appealing. One of the options that made ItF (RIP) interesting was the ability to fly with Newtonioan Physics or a computer aided "fly-by-wire"system. Would it be possible for the TBP team to do something like that with the source code? If so that would be a great option for all of the players that would like Newtonian physics and for the players that like "fly-by-wire".

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

Considering, at heart, all space-sims are physics engines with everything else wrapped around it, changing FS2 from arcade to newtonian would be ludicrous ... I'd much prefer they work on gameplay, mission design, stuff like that. Blinking lights'll be cool and all, but first and foremost TBP seems to be about quality gameplay; and I want them to keep doing that.

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