Registered: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 2275

how about just having a different /data/ directory for each mod.. then just say to the launcher "switch mod" then select a new /data/ directory..
different tables for different campaigns could be done by having the launcher able to change the /tables/ directory within the data directory..

ie if I've switched TBP, I can then switch the tables with a different part of the launcher.

it's nothing that can't be done with batch files.. just needs a UI to go on top of it.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

quote:

---

IceFire: I know the team wasn't responsible for that. I am, however, poking fun at you.

---

I know

Have to make it clear to everyone else tho...we didn't do that

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- IceFire
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[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 1901

quote:

---

IceFire: I know the team wasn't responsible for that. I am, however, poking fun at you.

---

I know

Have to make it clear to everyone else tho...we didn't do that

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Stafford, England
Posts: 93

quote:

---

Originally posted by Skullar
I think we should have a FS2-mod launcher in GENERAL that allows to launch FS2 with several different "configurations".

---

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Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Stafford, England
Posts: 93

quote:

---

Originally posted by Skullar
I think we should have a FS2-mod launcher in GENERAL that allows to launch FS2 with several different "configurations".

---

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

OK , lets plan the launcher in theory :

I dont think we need individual data dirs.
Explanation : We can have ALL the **** in our data dir , if it is used or not can exclusively be managed via the correct usage of the table files. Unless you dont have dozens of mods and total conversion installed that use the same name for individual sounds , grafics or whatever you won't have a problem. But : If you want to remove a tc or a mod from your HD it could be tricky to identify all files that belong to it.

So : A launcher should offer both methods. Multiple DATA dirs AND multiple table-sets at startup.

The opportunity to choose table sets is also necessary. For example : It would be great to have individual messages.tbl files for individual campaigns and even individual mainhalls for all possible races we eventually will have campaigns for. They all use the same models and sounds ingame , however , so it would be a waste of disk space to have the complete data folder with all the TBP stuff for each race campaign ( over 100 MB each ! )

For example :

FS2 normal DATA folder , eventually with some few models and sounds.
- Derelict table set
- BWO table set
TBP DATA folder
- Generic table set
- EARTH CIVIL WAR CAMPAIGN table set
- MINBARI WAR CAMPAIGN table set
- Generic set with turbo tables ( Mod )
- Release 1 Demo campaign table set
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA DATA folder
- Generic table set

Having this structure would allow to have more functioning models installed than normally fit into a single set of tables. YOu could have dozens of vessels for one campaign which arent in the tables for another campaign so you dont waste space there.
For example dozens of different starfuries with individual hull paintings that aren't needed in a Narn-Centauri campaign.


Comments ? I think we should work this idea out . A clever FS2 launcher for ALL possible mods and TCs would be highly appreciated. And we have to agree on some outlines for it.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

OK , lets plan the launcher in theory :

I dont think we need individual data dirs.
Explanation : We can have ALL the **** in our data dir , if it is used or not can exclusively be managed via the correct usage of the table files. Unless you dont have dozens of mods and total conversion installed that use the same name for individual sounds , grafics or whatever you won't have a problem. But : If you want to remove a tc or a mod from your HD it could be tricky to identify all files that belong to it.

So : A launcher should offer both methods. Multiple DATA dirs AND multiple table-sets at startup.

The opportunity to choose table sets is also necessary. For example : It would be great to have individual messages.tbl files for individual campaigns and even individual mainhalls for all possible races we eventually will have campaigns for. They all use the same models and sounds ingame , however , so it would be a waste of disk space to have the complete data folder with all the TBP stuff for each race campaign ( over 100 MB each ! )

For example :

FS2 normal DATA folder , eventually with some few models and sounds.
- Derelict table set
- BWO table set
TBP DATA folder
- Generic table set
- EARTH CIVIL WAR CAMPAIGN table set
- MINBARI WAR CAMPAIGN table set
- Generic set with turbo tables ( Mod )
- Release 1 Demo campaign table set
BATTLESTAR GALACTICA DATA folder
- Generic table set

Having this structure would allow to have more functioning models installed than normally fit into a single set of tables. YOu could have dozens of vessels for one campaign which arent in the tables for another campaign so you dont waste space there.
For example dozens of different starfuries with individual hull paintings that aren't needed in a Narn-Centauri campaign.


Comments ? I think we should work this idea out . A clever FS2 launcher for ALL possible mods and TCs would be highly appreciated. And we have to agree on some outlines for it.

__________________
Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield UK
Posts: 1913

everyone can **** *** this is mine and avenger terratory and we know exactly what it will do, and it will be for tbp only, it will allow activation deactivation of OUR mod, avenger is programing a launcher "kit" so all the mods can make there own if they wish...i've seen a beta for this and it looks easy to use and promising. but our launcher wont be community wide...thats not our responsibility

if youd keep up to date with the launcher debates id posted on the internal forum skullar...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield UK
Posts: 1913

everyone can **** *** this is mine and avenger terratory and we know exactly what it will do, and it will be for tbp only, it will allow activation deactivation of OUR mod, avenger is programing a launcher "kit" so all the mods can make there own if they wish...i've seen a beta for this and it looks easy to use and promising. but our launcher wont be community wide...thats not our responsibility

if youd keep up to date with the launcher debates id posted on the internal forum skullar...

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[url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url]: Currently designing nebula / planets and adding smoothing in all the right places ;)

[url=http://www.b5mods.com]Great Wars - Homeworld[/url]

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

This launcher should be a small program.
No full palette background pic , no sound , no stunning animations or speech , I just want a simple, efficient and comprehensive little thing that allows me to switch between my Data folders and tables.
Nothing to admire.

Oh , and dont forgot that switching to another config also backups any changes you did to your latest version of your data folder ( or table set ) , this should be an OPTION, not a necessity. Do I have to write the batch file on my own ?
**** . I knew it. I shouldn't have delayed my C++ course that long. so it will be a batch file.

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Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

This launcher should be a small program.
No full palette background pic , no sound , no stunning animations or speech , I just want a simple, efficient and comprehensive little thing that allows me to switch between my Data folders and tables.
Nothing to admire.

Oh , and dont forgot that switching to another config also backups any changes you did to your latest version of your data folder ( or table set ) , this should be an OPTION, not a necessity. Do I have to write the batch file on my own ?
**** . I knew it. I shouldn't have delayed my C++ course that long. so it will be a batch file.

__________________
Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield UK
Posts: 1913

i tell him what it should do, avenger makes it work :P

dont worry its in avengers hands, and we will argue when release 2 is nearer , avenger and i are good at arguing over the launcher

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[url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url]: Currently designing nebula / planets and adding smoothing in all the right places ;)

[url=http://www.b5mods.com]Great Wars - Homeworld[/url]

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield UK
Posts: 1913

i tell him what it should do, avenger makes it work :P

dont worry its in avengers hands, and we will argue when release 2 is nearer , avenger and i are good at arguing over the launcher

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[url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url]: Currently designing nebula / planets and adding smoothing in all the right places ;)

[url=http://www.b5mods.com]Great Wars - Homeworld[/url]

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Horley, Surrey, UK
Posts: 278

If you guys can get this to work it'd be cool. Having batch files to rename dir's for you is a pain when you've got more than one mod installed.

As for how it should work well the more complex mods should have their own /data directorys and less complex ones (just a .VP mod, or just a few table files) should be allowed to reside within the unmodded FS2/data/ directory.

A launcher would have to also be able to launch, FS2 as well. If a person needs to edit their FS2 general settings then either the FS2 launcher should be loaded or that "settings" window should be launched from the mod's launcher.

I guess that covers about everything I have on my mind about this. Saying is the easy part. Now someone has to get around to building the thing :/

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Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Horley, Surrey, UK
Posts: 278

If you guys can get this to work it'd be cool. Having batch files to rename dir's for you is a pain when you've got more than one mod installed.

As for how it should work well the more complex mods should have their own /data directorys and less complex ones (just a .VP mod, or just a few table files) should be allowed to reside within the unmodded FS2/data/ directory.

A launcher would have to also be able to launch, FS2 as well. If a person needs to edit their FS2 general settings then either the FS2 launcher should be loaded or that "settings" window should be launched from the mod's launcher.

I guess that covers about everything I have on my mind about this. Saying is the easy part. Now someone has to get around to building the thing :/

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-->[url=http://www.th3b4r.com]The Bar[/url]

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: South Australia,Australia,Sol
Posts: 1185

Having a launcher to lauch different campaign is a great idea as it will eliminate the 380 k limit on tables because you won't need to put everything in the tables file only that is needed for that campaign...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: South Australia,Australia,Sol
Posts: 1185

Having a launcher to lauch different campaign is a great idea as it will eliminate the 380 k limit on tables because you won't need to put everything in the tables file only that is needed for that campaign...

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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here"-Walkers of Sigma957
[url=http://ifh.firstones.com]IFH[/url]-B5 free game
[url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/]The Babylon Project[/url]-Bringing Babylon 5 to Freespace2

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Exactly . I think we should have it as a PRE-launcher before the original FS2 launcher.

Features of our universal Pre-launcher :

1. switching between data dirs
We have several data dirs the launcher deletes the actual data dir and replaces it with another one. Like this you switch between Total conversions for example. Before he deletes you are asked if the current data dir shall be backed up as another data dir ( which could be a new one or an existing one in case you made changes yourself you wanna keep like new missions. )

2. Switching between table sets.
in the tables folder of the data dir ( the CURRENT one , optionally this feature can be offered for inactive data folders ) we should have ALL tbl files that exist , no matter if they got modified or not. So , we have the situation covered someone edits a table no one else did before :
The different table sets are named
.tbl ( actual tables )
.xyz ( whatever ending , for other table sets )
Just as with the data folder you can switch between table sets, and when you replace current table set with another one you are asked if they shall be simply overwritten or if the changes shall get backed up to another set with a customizable .xyz ending.

Note :
I suggest our Prelauncher should have something like an internal databank : Every data folder and every table set should come with a description the launcher can read . So , the launcher tells you :

Data : Currently the Data_TBP folder is installed.

Data_FS2 : Original empty FS2 data folder.

Data_TBP : This is the recent version of THE BABYLON PROJECT. Current Version is release 1.1

Data_StarTrek : An early version of the StarTrek Total conversion

Data_StarWars : blablablabla.....


Same with table sets ( in the current data folder ) :

tbl : Current tables. The rl1-set is installed.
rl1 : Release 1 tables
rl2 : Release 2 tables
eac : Earth Alliance Civil War table set.
ncn : Narn Centauri War tables ( Narn side )
ncc : Narn Centauri War tables ( Centauri side )

Final notes :
-----------------
1. Though I recommend we leave the missions folder in the data dir untouched the mission/campaign descriptions in techroom should show WHICH table set you have to have installed in order to play the campaign.

For example , The EA Minbari War demo is balanced for release 1 tables which should be stated in the techroom/campaign menu.

2. Applying patches or installing new releases must be something the launcher recognises , that means new releases also overwrite launcher descriptions.

IMPORTANT
3. You can modify the icon of our FS2-launcher and add a command line :
for example if the command line of the icon is
prelauncher -data tbp -tables rl1
FS2 is loaded with TBP data folder and release 1 tables.
prelauncher -data fs2 -tables bwo
FS2 is loaded with standard FS2 data folder and tables to play the Blackwater Ops campaign...

and so on. Like this we could have lots of TCs , mods , whatever , accessible via a SINGLE CLICK.

__________________
Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

Last edited by Skullar on 04-19-2002 at 10:56 AM

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 1184

Exactly . I think we should have it as a PRE-launcher before the original FS2 launcher.

Features of our universal Pre-launcher :

1. switching between data dirs
We have several data dirs the launcher deletes the actual data dir and replaces it with another one. Like this you switch between Total conversions for example. Before he deletes you are asked if the current data dir shall be backed up as another data dir ( which could be a new one or an existing one in case you made changes yourself you wanna keep like new missions. )

2. Switching between table sets.
in the tables folder of the data dir ( the CURRENT one , optionally this feature can be offered for inactive data folders ) we should have ALL tbl files that exist , no matter if they got modified or not. So , we have the situation covered someone edits a table no one else did before :
The different table sets are named
.tbl ( actual tables )
.xyz ( whatever ending , for other table sets )
Just as with the data folder you can switch between table sets, and when you replace current table set with another one you are asked if they shall be simply overwritten or if the changes shall get backed up to another set with a customizable .xyz ending.

Note :
I suggest our Prelauncher should have something like an internal databank : Every data folder and every table set should come with a description the launcher can read . So , the launcher tells you :

Data : Currently the Data_TBP folder is installed.

Data_FS2 : Original empty FS2 data folder.

Data_TBP : This is the recent version of THE BABYLON PROJECT. Current Version is release 1.1

Data_StarTrek : An early version of the StarTrek Total conversion

Data_StarWars : blablablabla.....


Same with table sets ( in the current data folder ) :

tbl : Current tables. The rl1-set is installed.
rl1 : Release 1 tables
rl2 : Release 2 tables
eac : Earth Alliance Civil War table set.
ncn : Narn Centauri War tables ( Narn side )
ncc : Narn Centauri War tables ( Centauri side )

Final notes :
-----------------
1. Though I recommend we leave the missions folder in the data dir untouched the mission/campaign descriptions in techroom should show WHICH table set you have to have installed in order to play the campaign.

For example , The EA Minbari War demo is balanced for release 1 tables which should be stated in the techroom/campaign menu.

2. Applying patches or installing new releases must be something the launcher recognises , that means new releases also overwrite launcher descriptions.

IMPORTANT
3. You can modify the icon of our FS2-launcher and add a command line :
for example if the command line of the icon is
prelauncher -data tbp -tables rl1
FS2 is loaded with TBP data folder and release 1 tables.
prelauncher -data fs2 -tables bwo
FS2 is loaded with standard FS2 data folder and tables to play the Blackwater Ops campaign...

and so on. Like this we could have lots of TCs , mods , whatever , accessible via a SINGLE CLICK.

__________________
Freespace 2 : The Babylon Project team member
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon
-----------------------------
The sun is quite warm,
the universe is fairly large
and I have a loose mouth.

Last edited by Skullar on 04-19-2002 at 10:56 AM

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Registered: May 2002
Location: Estonia
Posts: 1024

oks os start this thing

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