Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Command deck of EAS Janus
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RE: Mr.Fury

Well Mr.Fury you see that always new ships are needed and MInbari federation isin't a ISA, yes they are one major races in it, but do you really think that every Sharlin has just moved in to usage of ISA? And if war would come with what Minbaris would defence them selves and warrior cast wouldn't do that even how hard Delenn tries to convince them you see they are not stupid.

White stars are still elite class ships, but advance can't be overseen (I love white stars).
And if I don't remember so wrong that Rangers were also looking for cure, am I right?

And do you really think that if Minbaris does have more advanced tech than Sharlis have's now at they wouldn't upgrate their cannons and armor? Yes Sharlis are very old, but why create a new once if old is still good? ANd I think that Sharlins had come a tradition to Minbari fleets.

Suprise is great ahead in battle (especially in B5 world), Vorlons jumped in before shadows could even react and next 1-3 shadow ships were destroyed. So here is my point.

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BAH! Enough of this! I know I'm right and you're all wrong. (j/k)

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 11-27-2001 at 03:19 PM

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NO I AM RIGHT AND U R ALL WRONG READ MY LAST POST

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Strange people you all are.

Some very valid points all around however.

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clearly i am right - i see no evidence of counter measures to missles by the voctory certainly aint going to hide from shadow sensors.

i admit that its does have a weakness in that its main guns point forwards - but i doubt it will to be honest it has great sensors - and those heavy plasma cannons can doo alot of damage themselves.

as for the vorlons - i agree they ahve gone for raw power from there weapons and good armour but not that fast but saying that there fighter is very impressive indeed

and yes they do have weapons covering all arcs - weapon tenticles morph out of the skin of the ship. and that was seen on the show so its canon.

and the shadows tech there phasing thing what benefit is it? it appears on sensors just the same as any normal jump point i think the vorlons just like to hide there true tech level and make things look more familiar than they are - like they did with themselves appear to us in familiar forms and they use jump points like ours - remeber the vorlons discovered third space so if they can do that they can phase in and out of hyperspace

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ok the shadows morping into normal space vs opening a jumpgate....

this has one advantage the shadows appears instantly in normal spaces vs regular jumps where the ship has to leave the jumppoint before engaging or turning or any form of action

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no evidence of that - there points just aren't visable and a jump point can be used as a pretty mean weapon - not much will survive (if anything at all) a jump point opening on it

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shadows are masters of hyperspace,
and you can't really compare shadows v. Vorlons as they'er isn't enough to go on, only 1 fight between em and that was when teh vorlons ambushed em so not fair..

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Although Vorlons can morph new tentacles, there is absolutely no evidence one way or the other that they can fire weapons in any direction other than to the front - it simply was never seen on the show. In all probability it is just the outer bio-armour layer morphing and the machinery necessary to generate the huge energy blasts in their weaponry is much more fixed in place, being focussed through the front tentacles.

Although I beleieve that the Vorlons only have one main weapon, I believe the same for the Shadows as well. The Vorlon gun has the propensity to fire a more powerful beam at the cost of a longer recharge rate compared to the Shadow slicer beam.

I seem to hazily remember that the Victory could release some form of chaff as a countermeasure to enemy missiles. However I can't remember on what show I saw this (Crusade). And yes, these countermeasures would not be 100% effective against all missiles.

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quote:

---

Drakh mother ship isin't really so good ship. In one scene Delenns white star killed one remember? Yes Drakh were allies of shadows, but really think that shadows would reveal secrets of their tech?

---

That was a Drakh cruiser, the mothership holds many of those.

Last edited by LAM3O on 11-27-2001 at 10:19 PM

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nope in one epsidoes a vorlon transport - koshs - was in its bay and sheridan and ivoniva were standing next to it and sheridan reached out to touch it and as he approched a tenticle grew out of it formed a weapon on the ended and locked a targeting laser on sheridan - as he backed away teh laser deactivated and was reabsorded into the ship - as for vorlon recharge time - they can jsut sustain the beam fire for long periods - and the shadows never made a 3rd space gate just as well if they had with there weakness to telepaths they would have gottne an asswhipping - at least the vorlons could fight back against them

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Agree with you there KillMeNow the vorlon ship is able grow tentecles on the sides of their ship to be used as weapons, how many they can grow at one time is the question.
In the episode "into the fire" you see one starfury get trashed as it flies besides what looks like a dreadnaught so I would say that the star dreadnaught could also grow many tentecles aswell....

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To Lam3o

Well you might be correct last time I saw a Drakh mothership it was in Crusade and last time when B5+Crusade were shown in Finland it was couple of years ago, so I am acting on that base what I remember and what I know.

But I am sure that Victory class ship couldn't beat up Minbari Sharli in fair fight and especially not Shadow ship. Remember that Victory class isin't protected well in flanks, just with few cannons. Imagine what would happen if shadow would flank it and as I remember it was that Shadow ship is faster than Victorys. And this same goes with Vorlon Dreadnoughts.

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A targeting laser type beam is very different to its main beam or even a beam powerful enough to take out a fighter. As I said, there simply isn't enough evidence one way or the other.

I always thought that the Victory had roughly the same firepower in all directions with four beams in the nose, four at the bases of the fins and fore on the tail of the ship. Aside from the beams in the nose, the others can cover wide arcs. Anyway, what is the point in building a ship specifically to be better than any of the other races' capital ships and not get the result desired? If they couldn't then the ISA could simply have built more Sharlins or Warlocks!

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Oh yeah, one thing:
Excalibur destroyed a Shadow Hybrid...
It's fully a Shadow ship, but modified by EA. Hybrid is meanier than a normal battlecrab...

Oh yeah... and there's more than one Hybrid... go figure

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 11-28-2001 at 11:28 AM

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where was that?? i never heard of more than one and the excaliber certainly didn't destroy it - infact it never encountered it - however yes it could take a shadow ship- that main gun is powerful we say in into the fire ep dreadnaughts blasting battlecrabs so it stands to reason a victory class can too but the hybrid could equally take the a victory class

to be honest if i was to rate ships on firepower i wouldn't the battle crab any further up the scale a sharlin or warlock - powerful to be sure and power in a smaller package than the ea or the minbari can produce but overall it can be overwhelmed by a sharlin i admit the warlock would have a harder time since the weapon on it that could stopa shadow vessel are pointed directly forward and i doubt any of the plasma weapons coulds stop a shadow vessel - and even if its got x-rays lasers around teh hull which is possible considering the dual fire nature of ea weapons i doubt they could stop a battlecrab for long although the narn x-ray lasers got one pretty good so you never know

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
Oh yeah, one thing:
Excalibur destroyed a Shadow Hybrid...
It's fully a Shadow ship, but modified by EA. Hybrid is meanier than a normal battlecrab...

Oh yeah... and there's more than one Hybrid... go figure

---

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The Hybrid wasn't destroyed according to the script, it was severly damaged by a near miss from the Excalibur's guns. It self destructed.

The Victory class's main gun can surely blow the crap out of a Sharlin. Regardless of anything else.

That probably also goes for a Shadow Battlecrab.

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I read the scripts again yesterday, I thought Excalibur destroyed Hybrid but seems like I was wrong. It was just damaged when it self-destructed.

And I still think that Victory destroyers can beat Warlock and Sharlin in 1 vs 1 fights without using it's main gun.

But because there is no any known good facts that would say what ship wins or loses, it is not necessary to discuss about this anymore.

But when Victory is ready, I am assuming really hot in-team debates how powerful it really should be...

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Last edited by Mr. Fury on 11-29-2001 at 10:39 AM

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Registered: Nov 2001
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Well in this point I only say that anything is possible in B5 universum. There are superior ships and less superior ships, but in some sircumtances less superior ship can destroy superior ship. Like in Minbari war, Shadow war and in Centauri war. If I remember correct squadron of Starfurys destroyed a centauri war ship which was heading to jumpgate (Loaded with Nukes and shadow long-range control mechanism), in order to destroy B5 jumpgate. Am I correct?

Like I all ready said everything is possible in Babylon universum.
So anyone can win sometimes.

And like I said in last message: Do you really think that Minbaris wouldn't upgrate their ships if they have a better tech? You would said that Minbaris would cladly give all their knowledge to usage of someone else? In first point grey counchil wouldn't accept it and especialy Warrior cast would be against it.

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