Registered: Dec 2000
Location:
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quote:

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As for cutting themselves off, it was the GTVA that used Meson-rigged Orions to collapse the Capella jump nodes, remember?

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Well they used a meson-rigged Orion to destroy the Knosos gate, but from millions of years with the gate the portal had become stable...remeber? The portal was still there even though the gate was destroyed.

As far as my theory being a rip off of StarCraft I really didn't know. I haven't played StarCraft-I hate strategy games. Really though, StarCraft ripped off other stories. The "creator makes weapon/being, weapon/being turns against creator" story has been around for ages: the Matrix, Terminator, etc...

If I were to guess I'd say the original inspiration for the "creation against creator" plot is Frankenstein.

So no, my theory is not all that original (I never said it was); I just think it's the most likely in terms of what Volition was thinking when they created the Shivans.

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Wait a week or two and you'll have more answers than you can possibly handle...

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What did you mean by this Plasma, I'm keenly interested.

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quote:

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By the way...decimated means reduced by 10 percent, I think you want devestated or annihilated or whatnot.

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My god you're anal aren't you

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Duelist Kingdom
Posts: 774

You never played starcraft? it's one of the best real-time strategy games ever! you'd probably like it regardless of disliking strategy games!

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Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Stevedroid:
Well they used a meson-rigged Orion to destroy the Knosos gate, but from millions of years with the gate the portal had become stable...remeber? The portal was still there even though the gate was destroyed.

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Registered: Oct 2000
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quote:

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Originally posted by Alphakiller:

(By the way...decimated means reduced by 10 percent, I think you want devestated or annihilated or whatnot.)

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Registered: Dec 2000
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Posts: 12

quote:

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You never played starcraft? it's one of the best real-time strategy games ever! you'd probably like it regardless of disliking strategy games!

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Duelist Kingdom
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quote:

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Originally posted by Stevedroid:
Actually I think I do now sorry. Still they didn't actually ever close the Knosos gate did they-just the gates to it, right?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Good question
Posts: 183

My theory on the Shivans making Capella go boom.....

The portal in Gamma Drac lead to a big arse nebula. In this nebula, there are a whole lotta Shivans. Why would the Shivnas be in this nebula? There are no minerals to mine. BUT there is a whole loota gas for a whole lotta Shivnas. My guess is that they use this gas as there main power source. Knowing that they were going to be stuck in Capella for a while, since the jump nodes were destroyed, they blew up the star. For those of you who are not famaliar w/ atsronomy, after a large star goes supernova, it leaves behind a massive nebula.

And there ya go.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
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you llamas, its not like I was like "FIX IT OR ELSE!!!!11"

I was just pointing it out, consider it ... gasp...trivia!!!

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

quote:

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Originally posted by Evil Incarnate:
Do continue! We care, we really do!

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Hmm, this is an SAT question...
Your Response Should Be...
A) Bite me.
B) Kiss my ass.
C) Suck it.
D) Screw you, !
E) All of the Above.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I'm gonna have to go with E, here...

hehe.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 57

Maybe thats how they procreate.

They destroy a Nebula, send in thereeggs (sathanas) and then we got shivan babies.

I dunno just a thought

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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 73

What the hell, here's my Capella theory for what it's worth...

The reason they destroyed the star, IMO, was not just to kill everyone in the system (which wasn't many people, there were only a handful of ships left in the system).
In the command breifing on "Their Finest Hour", Admiral Petrarch mentions that the Sathanas juggernauts around the star are generating a massive subspace field.
So, I believe that the Shivans were possibly using the gravitational force of the star (or whatever) to create a new, massive jump node, which they could all get through in time before the star exploded.
And the reason why some didn't make it? Maybe they didn't count on the Colossus destroying one of them...



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Location: Jerusalem, Israel
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My theory is this: Half the Sathanas' fleet jumped out at the moment of the supernova in order to create a whole flock of new subspace nodes. Interesting? Read on...
Ever wonder why subspace nodes only lead to locations within a planetary system (or nebula) and not into the middle of interstellar space? Gravity could be a good reason. Let's assume that gravity 'weakens' the (warning, cliché alert!!!) "very fabric of space". These weak areas are more susceptible to 'developing' a subspace node. Maybe even the focal points of different gravity fields from different sources (planets, suns, etc) are what dictated where the node would form (be formed?). That might even be what the Knossos device does, focus intense gravitic waves to form an opening into subspace. As for nodes into nebulae, they could've been formed before the star of that system turned or was turned into a nebula. Whatever, let's just assume that gravity plays an important role in the formation of subspace nodes.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but to make an INTRA-system (from one point to another in the same solar system) jump a given ship does not need to reach a subspace node, but to jump INTER-system (from one solar system to another) the ship does need to use a subspace node.
With that in mind, consider:
1) The subspace flux detected before Capella went supernova was what caused the supernova. The flux was not caused by the supernova, since it occurred first.
2) Half the Sathanas fleet jumped into subspace at the moment of the explosion.
3) They did NOT jump from a subspace node, and have (apparently) not turned up in any of the systems linked to Capella via subspace nodes, therefore their jump was to a destination inside the system of Capella.
4) This seems not only pointless but downright stupid. In traveling through subspace they would arrive at their destination before the shockwave from the supernova and would subject themselves to it a second time. “Big badda boom…”
So…..
What if the diabolical Shivan plan was this: When the 20 or so juggernaughts opened up the subspace portals and made the jump, part of the shockwave from the supernova entered or was sucked into the portal along with them? This sudden surge of energy into an intrasystem subspace corridor would have forced a dramatic change in the location of the exit point. Because of the effect gravity has on subspace nodes, these new exit points would generally be located inside a solar system (I say generally because, as any schoolchild nowadays knows, the effect of a supernova-level shockwave entering a n-dimensional subspace corridor in quite unpredictable). Whether these exit points would become stable subspace nodes or just one-time exit points, or whether they would form in nearby systems or previously undiscovered systems, I leave up to Volition/Interplay or future campaign writers.
Well, I hope that those of you brave enough to read all this have a lot of new food for thought. Now go do something with it! (Like write a new campaign… J)
BTW, the idea behind the “energy-surge-in-subspace-forms-new-nodes” theory comes from the excellent 2-book Star trek series by Gene DeWeese, “Chain of Attack” and “The Final Nexus”.
Responses, please.

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The error with the "Shivan BBQ" theory is that the worlds beyond Knossos 2 are intact.

Also simply because you operate in zero-gravity does not mean that you destroy all mass you see. (we operate in gravity and do we shoot space to try to "destroy all zero gravity by throwing bullets in orbit?" a pretty lame idea since it would just displace Earth's mass since that's where we get the bullets from >:-) )

Also, the nebula would be a ring several light years away from the Gamma Draconis-Capella sub-space node.

Now the rapid change of mass could generate new natural nodes... but I'm not betting on it.


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Registered: Dec 2000
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Could someone please explain what exactly the "Shivan BBQ" theory is?

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Duelist Kingdom
Posts: 774

I agree...what IS the "shivan BBQ theory"?

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Sandwich, take this into consideration:

Sub-space nodes generally appear in system's whose stars have more mass or were within territory held by the ancients.

The reason for more nodes in systems held by the ancients is due to their creation and use of Knossos devices to stablize more inter-system nodes.

Alright, if node amount is based on mass, then planets have almost no effect, due to their relatively low mass to stars.

Now, naturally based on this theory, neutron stars contain more stable sub-space nodes than say a double star system.

Here's another thing to remember, Capella was a Sol-like star. (type K I believe) now, Capella went super-nova, not just nova.

Now the question is, where did they get the mass to make Capella go super-nova? Just exciting the star's matter wouldn't be enough.

Why and how are very closely connected things, if you can figure out how they do it, then you'll know the situations they can do it in, and thus why they did it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ace:
Sub-space nodes generally appear in system's whose stars have more mass or were within territory held by the ancients.

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Huh? Define "appear" - nodes exist in all systems traveled to simply because they are the only (reasonable) way to get there. Or did you mean "new nodes form in systems..."?
Also, "more" is relative; to what? And maybe I missed it, but is there some sort of site that keeps track of the systems once held by the Ancients?

quote:

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Here's another thing to remember, Capella was a Sol-like star. (type K I believe) now, Capella went super-nova, not just nova.

Now the question is, where did they get the mass to make Capella go super-nova? Just exciting the star's matter wouldn't be enough.

Why and how are very closely connected things, if you can figure out how they do it, then you'll know the situations they can do it in, and thus why they did it.

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True, not having enough mass is a problem:
Taken from Zoom Astronomy ( [url="http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/glossary/indexc.shtml"]http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/astronomy/glossary/indexc.shtml[/url] )(my emphasis)
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"CAPELLA
Capella is a multiple star system containing at least 9 stars. This bright system is in the Northern Hemisphere, 45 degrees from Polaris (the northern pole star); it is in the constellation Auriga. The two brightest stars in Capella are a binary star system. They are both yellow (like our Sun) with masses 2.6 times and 2.7 times that of the Sun. One is 9 times as large as the Sun, the other is 12 times as large. Each gives off roughy 78 times the light as the Sun. These two stars are about 43 light years from Earth."
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Combine that with this quote from The National Geographic Picture Atlas of Our Universe, pg. 237:
"Extremely massive stars - 30 or more times more massive that the Sun - keep the fusion process going until their cores are almost pure iron..... A high-mass star with an iron core heated to a billion kelvins collapses, causing a catastrophic explosion known as a supernova....Such explosions are thought to produce all the known elements heavier than iron. Dying stars, then, are the element factories of the Universe."

So... I figure it like this. The Shivans chose Capella to go SN because although the stars did not have enough mass, together all 9 stars did (maybe!). So the 9 stars were manipulated by that infamous Shivan "sufficiently advanced technology that it seems like magic" into combining, so enough mass could be present to start the SN, which they needed in order to create all those heavier-than-iron elements for the upkeep of their fleet. <deep breath>

Sorry for the mess of quotes and stuff, but that's what happens when somebody tell me to "consider"! :P

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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Tania Austrailis
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Now, if the shivans had a reason to destroy the star, why leave 1/2 the fleet there?

Why didn't the shivans warp out?

I like the reproduction idea... Shivans are made of broken sathani...

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Registered: Jul 2000
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*ahum* I will restate that line which confused you.

Inter-system natural sub-space nodes are created when an object of a certain mass distorts space. Certain locations are distorted further and allow for the opening of a passage from normal space to sub-space. The N-dimensional corridors' destination points are an end point with the same harmonic.

New nodes are created when large quanities of mass on a stellar scale are altered, this generates new distortion locations.

Sub-space nodes would more than likely be placed in areas with the most stellar tidal distortion, since chance has it that the heavy gravitational effects would allow for the sub-space true space barrier to be weakened due to the properties of sub-space. (i.e. in the 2 dimensional gravitational well maps, sub-space is the area under the grid, so whatever is lower in the grid is closer to sub-space and has more tears in the grid's fabric which means more node locations)

This is still a rather clumsy explanation, but it overall matches with Volition's concepts for natrual nodes.

Artificial nodes are generated harmonics which open a node between two points, the power to distance ratio increases drastically when the end point is outside of the same gravatational body. So thus artificial inter-system jumps are impossible with present GTVA technology.

Knossos devices stabilize the more unstable sub-space nodes, as well as Shivan technology allows jumps through the most unstable and undetectable points. (more than likely the entirety of space is littered with small natural sub-space nodes to unstable and insignificant to detect)


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Registered: Oct 2000
Location: Tania Austrailis
Posts: 3322

OK Smartass! I get it, the stuff blowing up causes subspace rifts... OK

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