Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 65

I think some more time SHOULD be spent on flyable capitol ships. that is where the real strategy is. Being the captain of those big monsters. Has anybody in here played Klingon Academy. Man I love how I can watch my ships different systems as they lose or gain back life. Or the shield status around the display of my ship, while my helmsman is yelling in the background: "Aft sheilds hit, down to 20%!!", or being in the middle of a battle and hearing "Primary weapons offline" after just taking a severe hit. while the whole time you are using a digital (keypad) interface to give commands to your bridge crew. I especially love being able to go to the different stations and change all the complex settings and macros to suit how I want the ship to run. Increase sensors to 200%, Overcharge primary weapons to 150%. I spent most of my beginning years in computers with space born fighter type flight sims, Wing commander's 3, 4 & prophecy. While I did have a lot of fun as I grew older it got a little boring just flying and shooting. I wanted the strategy of command. Controlling your ships functions to survive and return for another attack. that's what commanding a capitol ship is all about. Right now the closest it comes to until Star Trek: Bridge Commander comes is Klingon Academy. IF you want to get back down to earth, Sub Command is about as realist as you can get and it operates on a 3dimensional plain as well because of the underwater aspects. but it is a very realistic and hard one to play. The PDF maual on the CD is 308 pages long and some very intense reading. But hey that's what controling one of the big boys is all about.
What is your opinion.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 576

Use the search function. This has beem discussed before.

You don't have FS2, so you don't know much about its engine, and its limitations, but believe me, flying capships in FS2 simply doesn't word, period.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 65

Well being brand new to this area you're right. I don't know what setting that up would entail. In fact I just picked up FS2 about an hour ago so I can start downloading the B5 files to try the game out dispite its limitations. I was only delving into the aspect of what other opinions might be. Do you like the idea of flying a capitol ship in the middle of a large scale battle?? I don't know squat about programing and key codes so if it wasn't for these wonderfully talented people who gladly give there time to the production of these modifications, I would still be playing them off the shelf. I was merely looking for input. Have any of you in here tried Star Trek:Klingon Academy or Sub Command. In sub Command you can actually use voice command with a headset to give orders just like Sheridan does on the bridge of the whitestar. I haven't set it up yet but reviews say it's great. No buttons just give the order and it happens. Man it would be great if these features could be incorporated or better yet use there engines and do whatever it is you do. I know I'm just talking, I don't have a clue how difficult that could be or if it is even possible but hey I can dream can't I. Believe me I am a big fan of B5. I have taped and catalogued all episodes except a few I have missed. But have you ever noticed that most of the fighting on B5 usually happens between the big boys. While the little guys are zipping around most of the attention is on the guy sitting in that command chair giving orders.
What is the diff. between something like Klingon Academy being able to control larger ships and systems and FS2 not having the ability. What causes this to happen?

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

The FS2 programmers didn't so much cut corners to prevent players taking control of capital ships, more like this ability was not required in the game so why even bother. To do so would have entailed more programming and more importantly more things that could go wrong.

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 65

I agree. I was just wondering if there was anyone else in here who had the desire to get out of that cramped cockpit and command one of the big boys??
"All hands, battle stations."
"Charge all weapons"
"Activate all defenses"
"Helm, range to target"
"Weapons, prepare to fire on my mark"
You know what I mean.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: GTD Haydon
Posts: 357

ok, first off, its "capital" not "capitol". Second, why the hell would you want to fly a capital ship in FS2? are you insane? Theres something we call bombers, theres something called ship commands if you really want to work with the big ships. But to do what you're talking about, flying a capital ship with either the joystick or in a bridge setting giving out orders, that has nothing to do with fs2, thats starfleet command. Fs2 has the focus on fighters and bombers, if you bought the game to fly capital ships, go take it back right now.

__________________
[url="http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/the158th/"]158th Banshee Squadron[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 576

Ok, the main reason why it wouldn't work, is that FS2 doesn't have that nice little command interface that KA has, and without the source code, we can't do that ourselves.

Of course there are dozens of more reasons, such as the fact that you can't actually fire beam weapons yourself, or that capships in FS2 engine are way too clumsy to fly.

BTW, have you tried playing KA multiplayer with B5 ships and voice commands? Now that's fun.

Oh yes, in case you didn't know there were B5 ships for KA, you can get some here: http://www.werewolves.org/~jburrows/bab5.htm

And in another thread you asked about buda5 for Iwar2, here's some screenies:

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~freespace/ubb/noncgi/Forum22/HTML/000038.html

And yes, you can fly capships there too

Last edited by pera on 01-24-2002 at 08:41 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 2275

the reason FS2 doesn't simulate capital ship fighting is the same reason you can't drive an aircraft carrier in Falcon 4.0

__________________
Forgive my stupidity.
---
The Fish Institution
http://www.fishinstitution.com

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

Xaphod, you're really coming out with the sarcasm today

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 65

thanks Pera!!'
That's the kind of USEFULL input I was searching for. I never even expected there to be any B5 mods already made up for ST:KA. That is a real bonus.
Just goes to show there are always possibilities not known by others.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

Xaphod's not being sarcastic, he's making a valid point. The engine was not designed for it, ergo, it can't be done because the code for it isn't there.

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

Well, its not that it can't be done "persay" because people have succeeded before in creating capital ships that the player could fly, but there are some big problems with this.

1) The game crashes if you're in the cockpit (apparently has something to do with the damage guage and the number of subsystems taken damage to)
2) You're flying a big slow tub of a ship with no weapons under your control.
3) There are no provisions for additional control or ability that most big ship games have to accomodate for the fact that your a lumbering beast and you can't manuver or go anywhere fast.

Am I interested in flying a big ship? Not in the FreeSpace engine I'm not and rarely anywhere else. Sure the FS2 engine is limited, but so is EVERY OTHER ENGINE....to varying degrees. So the answer from my personal opinion is that its not worth it (for this game at the very least).

With TBP we have balanced things as best we can so that you have both the feeling of Babylon 5 (and naturally vulnerable fighters) and the emphasis on the player that should exist.

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Nottingham, England
Posts: 1470

If you want to command capital ships then in my opinion an RTS would be the best option as you can issue orders and effectively control the ship but not be stuck to one capital ship when the fighters need to go off and do something.

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

Excellent point.

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

Triggy - it's called Homeworld.

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Oviedo, Florida
Posts: 65

Actually I'm of the understanding that there is a B5mod for Klingon Academy which is based soley on capital ship combat. I just can't find anything current on it. The first ones web page in regards to this is severly outdated. Also the Buda 5 is based on Independence War 2 and is mostly capital ship combat and they have some great graphics because it is based on a game engine that just came out last year.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

Yeah. Basically, if you want to fly Starfuries, T-bolts, etc...TBP. If you want to run around and command Omega fleets, go for Buda5.

I'm obviously biased towards TBP, but I own FS2 and don't own IW2.

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 882

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alphakiller
Yeah. Basically, if you want to fly Starfuries, T-bolts, etc...TBP. If you want to run around and command Omega fleets, go for Buda5.

I'm obviously biased towards TBP, but I own FS2 and don't own IW2.

---

__________________
VBB Survivor - Mar 2001 to 12 April 2002 - 1107 posts

Hit it 'til it gives up....

[URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity]RECIPROCITY[/URL] [URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/demo.html]The Luyten Incident[/URL]
[URL=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/reciprocity/casualtiesofwar/main.htm]Casualties of War[/URL]
ICQ: 119819902

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 576

quote:

---

Originally posted by aldo_14




Secondly, FS2 allows for a campaign sturcture not too easily done in I War2 . Thirdly, I War 2 is centred more on being a freelancer involved in a war, rather than a military pilot....


(my 2c)

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged