Registered: Jul 2001
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 185

Okay, good news is that TBP does run with the hi-res textures using a Voodoo3 PCI under Glide. Also, I'm making slow progress with the Vasudan Invasion mod for TBP, considering that I accidentally deleted the .tbls, and I just now finished rebalancing them (although it still isn't perfect). And this time, an Aurora actually can kill a GVF Seth! Now I need to cook up a storyline and find some decent FREDers to make a few missions.

The bad news is that the AGP port on my motherboard mysteriously quit working (which is why I'm using the Voodoo), and I'm now looking for a replacement. Or is it that my AGP card has gone screwy and I'm going to have to invest in a new one? Either way, if anyone's got some ideas or suggestions, I'm open to them.

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2894

Prices for video cards...

GF2 Ti - about $120
GF3 Ti 200 - about $190
GF3 Ti 500 - about $240-300 depending on model.

Brands I'd reccomend include Gainward, Visiontek, and Leadtek. As always, do some research before hand (Anandtech, Tom's Hardware, HardOCP, Ars Technica) ... but those are 3 brands I've heard of that are good.

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Registered: Mar 2001
Location: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Posts: 169

Don't go spending money you don't have to yet. Try this out.

Is your AGP card posting, I'm not sure of your pc knowledge so what I mean is it posting the card specs(card name, MBs, manufacturer, etc) immediately upon startup? Are you getting any beeping noises upon start up? If it is possible pull your AGP card out and borrow one from a friend and stick in in yours. If that card posts on your system they your card is shot if it does not post it looks like your AGP slot is gone. Also put your AGP card in another system and see if it posts and if it doesn't post in that system the card is shot.

What are your current system specs(mainly processor and ram) if you need a new board?

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Last edited by Ranger1 on 11-19-2001 at 05:53 AM

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Oops. I accidentally deleted a part of my message, heh. Edit time.

Borrow a friend's AGP card first. If it doesn't work in your box - the slot's fried. New motherboard time?
If it does work, the card's fried. New card time, see advice above

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA, United States
Posts: 1290

JCDenton, how well did the highres textures work with your Voodoo 3 PCI? We're there any glaring problems or would you recommend people with a similar card download the high-res patch?

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 185

As far as I could tell, the hi-res graphics on the Voodoo looked pretty consistent with the results from my Geforce2, and in fact were almost identical, although I did note that when a lot of ships were onscreen at a time, there was a much greater chug factor than running the GF2.

And it may be that it's a twist of fate that they work with my card, or maybe the V3 can handle the hi-res patch. Either way, try it and see for yourself. I'd recommend it, minus the chug problem (but I'd suspet it's the lack of LODs on the models that is the source of that).

And Alphakiller, I'll probably try that card test this weekend. But I need a new motherboard anyways since this one only supports AGP 1x (which is so much slower than PCI!! )

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Last edited by JC Denton on 11-21-2001 at 03:29 AM

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Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa, United States
Posts: 1016

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alphakiller
GF2 Ti - about $120
GF3 Ti 200 - about $190
GF3 Ti 500 - about $240-300 depending on model.

---

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Kazan


too bad they all are worth about $10

---

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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Alphakiller


Yeah, and that fancy Radeon's worth about $5.
Grow up.

---

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Registered: Aug 2000
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It is about maturity. Your petty attitude that "nvidia sux0rs, ATI r0x0rs" is hopeless when you consider facts.

Fact: nVidia's the industry leader for a reason. Fact: ATi's driver support sucks. You should NOT have to rely on third-party sources for quality drivers - and with an nVidia board you don't.

Fact: Show me stats on this 'rate of failure' since I know, through empirical tests, probably a hundred different nVidia-chipset boards. No failures. Not to mention board quality control is determined by manufacturer and not by nVidia because they don't make the boards, just the chipset. So again, moot point. Secondarily, image quality (especially 2D) is also set by the manufacturer ... so a VisionTek, Asus, Abit, Leadtek, Winfast, etc ... they're all different. It's like you're blaming Intel for a Dell's crappy performance - the chipset maker can only do so much, it's up to the manufacturer to make it superb.

Radeons push frame rate, stability, and quality, eh?
That's why they felt the need to cheat Quake3 for framerates in benchmarks? That's why stability (which is a function of driverset) is one thing ATI is imfamous for doing BADLY? (However, they do have new drivers which fix that Q3 cheat and still enhance performance; keep reading. I'm impressed how fast they got them out ... even if they are a month behind ATi's promised release date) ... and another quote from Anand:

quote:

---

We would be lying if we didn't mention that the Radeon 8500's "final" performance was a bit disappointing; we weren't expecting parity with the $199 GeForce3 Ti 200, we were expecting a GeForce3 Ti 500 killer. All of the specs pointed at a higher performing product, but in the end we are limited by what has been ATI's Achilles' heel: drivers.

---

(from [url=http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1544&p=16]here[/url])

I've never heard of a non-OCed GF burning up, so that point's irrelevant as well. Next you're going to bash Athlon Thunderbirds because they run hot too?

And Radeons blow their nVidia equivilants away when "all things are equal" eh? Let's see...reading HardOCP's review ...
http://www.hardocp.com/reviews/vidcards/ati/8500/index2.html

Nope, GF3 is ahead. Not by much - nobody doubts the fact that the 8500 is a damn good card - but GF3 is ahead of Radeon.
Keep in mind that's the Q3 bench where if you'll remember, the Radeon had a cheat-tacular driver setup just for Q3, lowering quality to get framerate...(and you say nVidia cheats image quality )

Well, for comparison's sake... Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1544&p=14

Whoops. What's this? Right, GF3 ahead ... again.

Wait, Anand might have something more to say ...

quote:

---

We weren't the only ones that were disappointed with ATI Radeon 8500's performance; reviews all around the web echoed the sentiments of many gamers, including some ATI supporters: the Radeon 8500 just wasn't up to par with expectations and definitely wasn't where it should be.
Had our October 17th article been a preview of a soon-to-come Radeon 8500 card then things wouldn't be so bad, however we reviewed a final card with mass production drivers that end users were actually buying. Our recommendation thus ended up being to pass on the Radeon 8500 in favor of the lower priced GeForce3 Ti 200.

Other than the lackluster performance of the Radeon 8500 there were other issues that ATI blamed on driver limitations as well. A major disappointment was that ATI's SMOOTHVISION anti-aliasing was not implemented in the shipping drivers. In spite of ATI's promises to deliver an updated driver revision by the end of October with SMOOTHVISION support, it is now the middle of November and end users have not been able to take advantage of a feature they paid for.

---

(Bold added).

Seems like it got rushed, eh? Anyway...new drivers for the Radeon:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1558&p=2
In all but two things, GF3 is ahead ... again. Some of the differences are minor, but it's ahead.

The fact is Kazan, facts don't support your argument. The facts are that the GF line is damn powerful and the 8500's no slouch - but it can't touch a GF3 Ti500 at present. What I want to see is whether or not ATi can improve their (currently poor ... read a tech forum like Ars; lots of people having problems with 8500 drivers) drivers to match up to the GF3.

Now, read this bold sentance very carefully: I have nothing against ATi or nVidia as a company. I want to see them both succeed - competition is healthy. However, the facts clearly show the GF3 is the king of video cards at present.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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BOTH OF YOU STOP YOUR BITCHING!!!! This isn't the time or place to gripe about GF3 vs Radeon 8500 and "one beats the other's ass in every test, blah, blah, blah".

Now, Ranger1, when there's not a video card installed, the comp makes a triple beeping sound. If the Geforce is installed, it also makes the beeping alert. I'm starting to think that the video card is malfunctioning, but I need a new motherboard anyways, so if I have the cash to throw around after Christmas, I'll invest in a new mobo and a new video card...provided I can choose between ATI (as Kazan would suggest) or nVidia (according to Alphakiller).

Really I think the best benchmark is to find a store with a good return policy and try a card from one manufacturer, and if you don't like it, take it back and try another.

Frankly, I've heard so much flak being thrown around about Radeons and Geforces both sucking that I don't really care if one can run .000001 frames/sec faster than the other, or load a texture into memory a billionth of a second faster than the other, I just want a new video card that will still be useful 2 years from now.

And Kazan, just a suggestion, but next time you make an argument, will you please provide some factual evidence to back your claims up?

Now, I need a new motherboard that can handle AGP 4x (1x simply will not cut it anymore), so if anyone has suggestions on such, I'd appreciate hearing them.

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"Next time you wonder why I am always tediously close to falling off into the pit of insanity, now you know what assaults me each time I turn the computer on."
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Registered: Oct 2001
Location: barrow in furness
Posts: 138

I agree with JC Denton stop complaining, you lot have good 3D cards poor old me is stuck with a Voodoo Banshee and never once have I had any trouble with it

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Posts: 1218

two things:

1)Nvidea boards wont burn up like that kazan, unless your overclockind and its fan dies, the card might die as well, If your Nvidea card doesn have a fan, that problem wont even apply as you shouldnt overclock it at all and I doubt the manufacturer would sell a product with its days numbered in the default settings.

2) why all this war over wich card you should is best if your satisfied with yours or arent planning buying one? Its JC's call, all you can do is advice, no point to go at each others throats to see whos wright.

I have expressed My opinion on wich was best to my view in the best bang for the buck G-force 3 ti200.
I ask again is it worth the contorversy?
hell I have a G-force 256 SDR and its just fine to me.
I wont make my life go arround a 3d card. If mine dies or getts too obsolete for my intents, well, then I might think in buyin one.
Untill then I'm a happy citizen of this planet who enjoys to live, dream, and being a fan of Sci-fi among other trivial things.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA, United States
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Just installed the high-res textures and am amazed to find out they work just fine with my Voodoo3 3000 PCI. No significantly noticable drop in framerate either in any of the missions I played (maybe 0.5fps - 2fps, but nothing that'll wreck the game). Very cool indeed.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
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So I guess I should go into the credits as "Guy who accidentally found hi-res texture compatibility with 3dfx cards" (j/k)

Anyways, I've got a bit of a problem with a mission I'm making. I can't get the pilot animations to come up for messages I'm sending. For example, I try to get the stellarcom ani to come up for a freighter's message, but only the text shows up. And I am telling it to use the b5-logo_stellarcom animation. What am I doing wrong?

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"Who is more foolish, the child afraid of the dark, or the man afraid of the light?"
- Maurice Freehill

"There is a certain art, or rather, a knack to flying.
The knack lies in learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
-The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

"Next time you wonder why I am always tediously close to falling off into the pit of insanity, now you know what assaults me each time I turn the computer on."
-IceFire

[url=http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=9]Node War's Federated Vasudan Commonwealth[/url]

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Registered: Jul 2000
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You're not doing anything wrong, really; it's just how the MOD was integrated into FRED2, I guess. When you first start making your mission, you'll need to manually tell the Event/Message Editor what .ani you want used for a particular message. The different persona animations (command, the pilot, the Stellar Com logo, the death animation (static), and the EA logo) are divided up into three different animations, kinda like in regular FreeSpace 2. Instead of entering it "b5-logo_stellarcom", you should put in "b5-logo_stellarcoma.ani". Note the addition of the letter "a" and the ".ani" extension. Both are important, but only the .ani extension is needed for all the animations. Also, for the different personas, the letters "b" and "c" can be used, although I don't think the animation will be different (this, I believe, is so FS2 can pick a random animation while in game). I digress; all you really have to do is type in the correct animation filename manually or click on the Browse button, go to the data/hud directory and find the animation you want to use there. After you get out of the Events Editor, the animations you put in will be saved (meaning you can use them from the pull down menu now) so you don't have to put those ones in again manually. Sorry I overcomplicated things.

Some of this is explained the CommPack.txt in the extras folder, along with a complete list of the different .anis.

Last edited by Slasher on 11-21-2001 at 09:03 PM

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Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JC Denton

And Kazan, just a suggestion, but next time you make an argument, will you please provide some factual evidence to back your claims up?

---

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Posts: 185

Alright! Thanks Slasher, it works now! And I have a relatively complete (objectives and all) mission for my mini-mod up and running. Now I just need to remember what all I changed, zip it up, and see if anyone wants a trial run of it (preferably staffers to see if they approve).

And Alpha, yes I have a Pentium, so I might want to go looking around to see what the best value is.

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- Maurice Freehill

"There is a certain art, or rather, a knack to flying.
The knack lies in learning to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
-The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

"Next time you wonder why I am always tediously close to falling off into the pit of insanity, now you know what assaults me each time I turn the computer on."
-IceFire

[url=http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=9]Node War's Federated Vasudan Commonwealth[/url]

Last edited by JC Denton on 11-21-2001 at 09:17 PM

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
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Wow, GF2 Ti's are $120 dollars. Thats dropped huge, but then again, a whole new generation of nVidia cards is out so why overprice last two quarters stuff (for those who know nVidia production cycles).

Thank you Alphakiller for proving a point I've been saying for quite a while.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Riverside, CA
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Shall i say kazzy is alpha's argument bitch?

... or not?

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