Registered: Jul 2000
Location: The Cold Northland!
Posts: 8392

The BlackWater Squadron is supposed to be an intelligence squadron. So they get all the high risk, somewhat classified, potentially strange mission assignments.

Does that mean they are an SOC squadron or a GTVI squadron? Does the GTVI even have squadrons (aren't they not allowed to under BETAC and the Deneb Convention)? Whats the difference between SOC squadrons.

I'm just tossing some topics of discussion out there

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Portugal
Posts: 68

Well, I think that the GTVI are the espionage guys, and secret projects of the GTVA, but I don't think that they are a bunch of pilots... I think that's what the SOC is for... I mean the GTVI does the research, and then the SOC does the blow up!!

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 882

My campaigns largely based on the SOC (albeit now performing a vastly more improtant role than pre-Capella).

I think the GTVI are an all-encompasing intelligence service - both planetary (advice to regional services) and interstellar operations. I reckon that the SOC is directly under command of the GTA (i.e. not Vasudan, although it may have a Vasudan counterpart).

The GTVA uses the SOC for elite / dangerous missions - however, the GTVI would heavily liase with the SOC (directly or though the GTVA command) for information gathering and reaction activites.... most of the fieldwork is done by the SOC, therefore, and the anlysing done by the GTVI.

but as the SOC is still part of the GTVA, it is also used for more regular guerilla or 'blitkrieg' type missions.

The difference between the SOc and 'elite' squadrons would be it's intelligence activites of rthe GTVI.

Does that make sense?

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Posts: 1216

I tend to agree that the GTVI functions as an intelligence-gathering group rather than a military force. It then hands on information to be acted upon by the GTVA. For whatever reason, the SOC had to be created, either because GTVA didn't act correctly, and thus SOC have more contact with GTVI, or because some things are better left in the realms of secrecy.

I horrible (morally) example would be the various aspects of the Schutzstaffel (SS). The SD were an internal and external intelligence gathering group, the Waffen-SS were a military group under the command of the SS.

Now, BWO is meant to be a special squadron, and if it were just SOC it'd be just another SOC squadron. It thus seems logical to make the formation of BWO and the commissioning of the Golgotha the first GTVI combat projects since the days of the Hades project. Prior to BWO, it was outlawed due to Hades, but attitudes are now beginning to relax, given the faithful service of the GTVI over the intervening years.

Aldo may be right in suggesting that the GTVI reports directly to the GTVA and contains elements from both species, but SOC may be purely Terran, and there may be a similar Vasudan force. Dunno what it'd be called though.

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 882

A Vasudan SOC equivalent would make sense, especially as there may be a threat form a HOL type faction (impossible to infiltrate using the SOC)

I think the SOC's origins may be similar to that of Churchills Special Operations Executive during World War 2 - an elite group of troops who were trained to wage 'ungentlemanly' war behind enemy lines - the SOc possibly formed for this during the T-V war.

My idea for Reciprocity (as an aside) was that the SOC was strengthened to 'fleet' status as an elite intelligence gathering taskfroce to deal with major, NTF style, insurgencies. Operating as both a forward line against enemy ships, and also smaller ships deep in enemy lines launching guerilla strikes.

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Last edited by aldo_14 on 11-08-2001 at 10:24 PM

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Not at home!
Posts: 681

I see the GTVI as a vast informant/operative network for intelligence gathering spread around a military core. It's undeniable that it's a military organization, and as such it needs bases of operations - both mobile and not. I imagine they have a command structure identical to that of the GTVA, branched into Terran and Vasudan commands, but separated from GTVA's own command structure except for the root node, which would be High Command.

That way, the GTVI must have both installations and ships (couple of destroyers, more smaller ships, lots of transports and ships that can be used for infiltration procedures) - and hence they need fighter/bomber squadrons to protect such ships and installations. The SOC is a special branch of the GTVI, employed only on the direst of situations, and always formed by the elite of Alliance pilots selected on a per-mission scheme under the command of regular GTVI operatives (such as Snipes) and operating on a strict need-to-know basis...

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Last edited by Styxx on 11-09-2001 at 01:47 PM

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Registered: Jan 2001
Location: Mönchengladbach, NRW, Germany
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Hey, read some Tom Clancy books and you know enough about these intelligence and BlackOp things!

GTVI: Intelligence
SOC: The "operative" branch...

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Last edited by Black Sheep 2000 on 11-09-2001 at 05:42 PM

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 91

Tom Clancy is covert operations. Not secret operations.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 91

quote:

---

Originally posted by IceFire


Does that mean they are an SOC squadron or a GTVI squadron? Does the GTVI even have squadrons (aren't they not allowed to under BETAC and the Deneb Convention)? Whats the difference between SOC squadrons.

---

Last edited by LionHeart on 11-09-2001 at 08:54 PM

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location:
Posts: 91

I always have the feeling of achivement when I dry up threads.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

You sucking life out of threads vampire!

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Registered: Oct 2001
Location:
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Special Operations Command.

That kind of sums it up.

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Registered: Jul 2000
Location:
Posts: 1477

Styxx is right, it is stated that Special Operations Command is the special operations command division of the Galactic Terran-Vasudan Intelligence.

SOC is the same force for both the Terrans and Vasudans.

However:
"You have volunteered for a covert assignment with Special Operations Command (SOC), in conjunction with Galactic Terran-Vasudan Intelligence (GTVI).

Our primary objective is to provide the Alliance with accurate and comprehensive information regarding the tactics, technologies, activities, and strategic objectives of forces hostile to the GTVA."

More then likely this states that the SOC is an autonamous group within the GTVI's budget allocations of the GTVA. (as SOC is not a large enough group to be mentioned in the techroom with the GTVA when the GTVI is)

SOC would contain several squadrons, Blackwater would more then likely be an independent GTVI or GTVA security council squadron. (I'd probably say that the security council runs it, they aren't stupid and a few decades isn't that long ago...)

Lionheart is correct in that the GTVI primarily researches and develops technologies as well as handles covert information operations. The SOC handles military aspects of this.

Even then, SOC may be it's own force with an independent command structure, but when push comes to shove the GTVI owns them...

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: scotland
Posts: 1205

i dont think teh GTVI researches anything that will be done by GTVA R&D jsut that the fancy tech is classified and is given to the elite unites such as the SOC first to try out. the GTVI i see them as spys - like the cia they have spys they have analysts but no military forces when they find somethign and determine soethign eeds to be done they hand it over to SOC or other special forces. However there operatives while not combat pilots or soilders might be called upon to perform assinations, theft, other nefarious tasks. but i dont think they would be called upon to jump inot a fighter and go take out an enemy squadron

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

I think it's all very shifty in that area of the military. I have a feeling that the departments infringe on each other's work, and that it's a gray area filled with intrigue and backstabbing, as was demonstrated by the GTI insurrection. I'd be willing to bet that the GTVI has ships operating under many battle groups without the admirals' even knowing it.

Also, I believe the SOC is kind of like a go-between for the GTVI and Allied Tactical Command. It does covert work, but has more combat assignments than other GTVI operatives.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: England
Posts: 632

SOC squadrons get all the new prototype ships.

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Massachusetts, US, Terra, Sol System, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group
Posts: 173

Yeah, they're lucky.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

They also get KIA.

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Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Hobart, Tasmaina, Australia
Posts: 202

Looks like SOC personell are not the only things that die

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location:
Posts: 329

Plenty of things that die around here. *click*

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