Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 91

Hyperion or Midwinter?

I've noticed that both these names appear to apply to the same cruiser design. Is this an error or do we have a situation analagous to the Cain/Lilith and Fenris/Leviathan of FS/FS2 where the same space frame is used for cruisers of differing specification?

I've checked a few sources, including the model status page here and none make a distinction.

The ship we've seen in a few screenshots already gets refered to as Hyperion-class. If that is the case, what is the Midwinter-class?

Cheers

Boron Shark

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Z'ha'dum
Posts: 186

This may help taken from B5tech

In the Heavy Cruiser's 45 year long service to the Earth Alliance, three distinct subclasses have emerged. These Alpha subclasses consist of the following: Roosevelt, Hyperion, and Midwinter. The Roosevelt subclass, which went into service in 2237, was the first Heavy Cruiser to have fighter bays added to the ship's design. The Hyperion subclass, 2244, was a complete structural overhaul of the Alpha design that included many new systems, including the first use of "interceptors" and "defense-grid." The last and most recent incarnation of the Heavy Cruisers was the Midwinter subclass back in 2247. The Midwinter subclass was the first line of Heavy Cruisers to incorporate the X-Ray Particle/Laser technology purchased from the Narns during the Earth/Minbari war.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 91

In that case, is it safe to assume that the ship we will be seeing is the Midwinter class, it being the most recent or are you gonna do the Cain/Lilith thing and have both/all three?

???

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: England
Posts: 2275

well everything I've seen refers to it as a Hyperion.. but a cain/lilith thing could be done with very little problem.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol, Wilds of Somerset, England
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In the terran-minbari war it could be either roosevelt or hyperion subclasses, since both were in service. On the same note, the exact same model could be used for the midwinter class in later campaigns.
It's generally refered to as a Hyperion, as that is the name of the first ship of this class we saw in the series.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Transylvania, ROMANIA
Posts: 1040

well actually there are 2 diffrent model doned..Hyperin had on side Standart turets like one on top and Midwinter has beam turrets......but since we cant make that damn side turrets move an Inch(FS2 engine problem) the turrttes are fixed and the ship will differ by only the weapons setup I think..and thatc an be done in Fred

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Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Earth...I think
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quote:

---

Originally posted by Boron Shark
I've noticed that both these names appear to apply to the same cruiser design. Is this an error or do we have a situation analagous to the Cain/Lilith and Fenris/Leviathan of FS/FS2 where the same space frame is used for cruisers of differing specification?

I've checked a few sources, including the model status page here and none make a distinction.

The ship we've seen in a few screenshots already gets refered to as Hyperion-class. If that is the case, what is the Midwinter-class?

Cheers

Boron Shark [/B]

---

Last edited by MaSC on 08-13-2001 at 11:00 PM

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Registered: Jul 2001
Location: Karlskrona, Sweden
Posts: 12

Then what class is the Heavy Cruiser "Clarkstown" seen in "Severed Dreams"? Should this be referred to as "EA Heavy Cruiser with beam turrets"? Sounds kinda silly, so why not call it the "Midwinter" subclass? I have made such a ship for IFH

http://ifh.dax.ru/cgi-bin/ikonboard/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=31

I think it is an advanced version of the standard Heavy cruiser.

Btw another quiz for you: In the movie ITB during Londos "The minbari went mad" speech, several Novas can be seen firing red laser beams at the minbari. What kind of weaponry is this????

cheers!
Henrik
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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol, Wilds of Somerset, England
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Sorry dude, just watched it and I think you're mistaken- the Novas or any other EA ship didn't fire any type of beam weapon- at least not that I could see
Although, always bear in mind that since the EA bought the particle/laser weaponry from the Narn during the EA/MF war, and the fact the Nova is often fitted out with varying payloads (so indicating it is easily modified). This means that if they did fire some beam weapons ( I must onfess I watched a medium quality- AVI clip...) it is possible they could have been experimental ones derived from the tech purchased from the Narns

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 436

Henrik! you post here too!!!

ahhhh, now you space sim guys have competition!!


Anyway, from what I know as being a DIE HARD BABYLON 5 FAN, I have NEVER EVER seen the NOVA fire beam cannons... even in the "the Minbari went mad" clip, I dont see Novas firing beams, I see yellow/green minbari beams destroying Novas. I always thought the Novas had tonnes of plasma/pulse type weapons.

But after I joined the Dilgar Invasion Homeworld mod team, they informed me that in Official Agents of Gaming guides, it SAYS that Novas had Small-Medium Beam Cannons. So although I've never seen them fired, I have reluctantly accepted that Novas did have weak beam weapons. Aparently, the EA had weak beam cannons even before the Minbari war, during the Dilgar War

Just from watching the show, my original thinking was more along the b5tech.com way.

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 91

Or even MORE simply, isn't it possible that following the Minbari War, all remaining "Hyperion" and Nova class vessels had their weapon systems upgraded to include beam weapons?

In other words, a similar situation to that in FS2 where the older ships (Fenris, Leviathan, Orion, Typhon) had beam weapons retrofitted to them.

Surely it stands to reason that Novas and Hyperions still in active service would have recieved a similar retrofit!

In which case, only once class would be needed and FRED2 alterations could be made for any Earth-Minbari War campaign to replace the beam weapons with regular pulse cannons.

Boron Shark

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Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bristol, Wilds of Somerset, England
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Fraid not. You see, the Particle Beams were bought from the Narn during the EA/MF war, and so it would have been impossible to retrofit all the ships at that time, plus the fact that the Eart scientists wouldn't have had time to adapt the weapons to their system etc. etc.
And no, as far as I know, the EA did NOT have ANY beam weapons before the EA/MF war- not even weak ones.

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Registered: Jul 2000
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1) Midwinter will be in the MOD. It does have the X-Ray/Particle Laser technology. The model is different I believe (although Tomcat seems to have shed some doubt on it). There was no confusion, Midwinter seems to be widely accepted as the upgraded Hyperion class.

2) Never in ITB was a beam weapon shown on a Earth ship. Unless I am totally blind and missed it the last 4 times I watched it...there is no beam. Perhaps a stream of pulses...but no beams.

3) Nova's and Hyperions were concievably upgraded after the war with new weapons. Most of the Nova class was destroyed and only few remain in active service. Most of the new technology was fitted on Omega class destroyers (which use the same basic hull).

4) FreeSpace2 tends to screw up when using the same model and different turret configs. Its also alot of work to totally rearm a vessel...so there will most likely be a separate Midwinter entry. If we do the Dilgar war, I can see us adding another cruiser class. But that could be campaign specific.

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Registered: Feb 2001
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I to was mistaken in never seeing a Nova firing but in ITB you do see them firing, the beams are very weak if you frame advance you see a line of novas and hyperion you can see the beams.The weapons they bought of the Narns later on are far more powerful than these...

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Registered: Jun 2001
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Yes, I can see what you are on about, but they are VERY faint, and, IMHO... not the Nova's beams
Why not? Due to the fact the ship explodes nearly instantly after firing them, and no other weaponry hits it. This leads me to think it is simply a mis-rendered Minbari beam, without the glow.
Let's face it, it wouldn't be the first time they'd messed up, like when the Churchill rammed the Agrippa and the name on the ship was Roanoake... (at least, that's what the other thread said, I havn't had a chance to go over it yet).
Edit: Update. I took a coupla screenies from the .AVI clip I got to illustrate the point, here they are:
http://members.tripod.co.uk/sPaZm/NovaBeam.jpg
- Wow, are those beams coming from that Nova?
http://members.tripod.co.uk/sPaZm/NovaBeam2.jpg
I guess not...
Edit:edit: Ok, the pic loads up slow, but hang with it, it'll get there eventually- I swear Tripod hosted my site on the slowest machine they could find...
Anyways, if N E one is having problems locating the beams, lower left
Edit:Edit:Edit: Happy now? Their JPG's... I couldn't be bothered last night, it was like 4 in the morning!

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Last edited by The Claw on 08-14-2001 at 06:26 PM

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 436

If you look at those screenshots (which SHOULD have been converted to jpegs by SOMEONE) it is CLEAR that the beams are from the Nova at the bottom right

I am convinced.

EA had week beam weapons.

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Registered: Apr 2001
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While it does look like those beams are coming from where they should be firing if they were fired from a Nova/Omega hull, it would be kind of tough for the ship to still be firing while it's exploding like that.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Transylvania, ROMANIA
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well I actually made 2 model for EA heavy Cruiser one standard and one with 2 beam turret.
the only diference it the side turret part: one has heavy pulse/plasma guns the other has beams.

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Registered: Feb 2001
Location: Sheffield UK
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I think the nova IS firing to answer a few questions :


I have the video clip of it btw so ive watched it about 10 times and lookeed frame by frame in animation shop

the nova ISNT destroyed in that clip - the nova above it is . no beams go near the nova that is firing. the explosion is just that of the nova above it....and the clip doesnt last long enough to tell otherwise...the beam (duel beam coming from exactly where the omega fires lasts about 0.4 seconds) it doesnt seem to be nial fire. Im pretty certain its the nova firing......

The churchill DID ram...but it rammed the roanoke....not the agrippa. It is believed the that the agrippa and roanoke name plates where mixed up. According to sheridans interegation anyway.

Well come on guys its all just nit picking. The FX guys and script guys said different things. Whos to say whos right. Personally i think the scrips guys shouldve got it right if the ep was already out...just look what ship he destroyed and put that in the script....

As for the nova firing - whos to say narn weapons hadnt been attached to that nova. At least its not totally out of the question considering the narns are "lending tech". So its not really a big deal, nova fired...end of story...they were all destroyed anyway !

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Registered: Apr 2001
Location: University Park
Posts: 268

The EA didn't start buying Narn weapons until after they realized they were getting their butts kicked by the Minbari.

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