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Posted by nietzshe on 07-06-2003 05:34 PM:

Space combat will be real in the near future

Space combat will be real in the near future

300 years ago to talk about a plane would throw you in jail, but i suspect that in the next near future we will be able to see real space flying and space-wars. I might sound a little too idealistic but we are not far from that. All we need is more technology, scientists are already working on interstellar-travel and faster than lightspeed travel (FLT)
It takes enormous amount of money to colonize a nation, and it would even require a lot more to colonize another planet, for now we will have to wait until a lot of things get fixed in our own planet like hunger, poverty and illness .

nietzsche

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Posted by Hippo on 07-06-2003 05:37 PM:

With NASA in a slump, and no confirmed contact with aother species, fren or foe, it may be a bit more then 'near future' well within the next 100 years though...

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Posted by nietzshe on 07-06-2003 05:41 PM:

hmmm, u got a point there but we gotta be possitive ;-)

hmmm, u got a point there but we gotta be possitive. Indeed, the thing is that NASA is state-owned. Being a state-owned corporation, it's very biased, politically and as u know most governments in the USA use all resources to get re-elected really not for the benefit of the people they govern :-)

nietzsche

quote:
Originally posted by Hippo
With NASA in a slump, and no confirmed contact with aother species, fren or foe, it may be a bit more then 'near future' well within the next 100 years though...

Posted by Hades on 07-06-2003 07:14 PM:

They didn't do a good job of using resources here...the whole state shut down last year because they couldn't agree on a budget...Not sure how that worked on them getting re-elected.

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Posted by Bobboau on 07-06-2003 08:44 PM:

well you see it was the other guys alt that the government shut down, so you should vote for someone oter than the other guy, maybe someone in my party, that way you won't have to worry about that other guy messing things up anymore.

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Posted by Woolie Wool on 07-06-2003 11:25 PM:

If you're talking about armed spacecraft or satellites designed to sabotage enemy satellites or bombard the enemy from space, maybe.

If you're talking FreeSpace-style combat, that will never happen.

FTL travel is as likely as Hell freezing to absolute zero. The best we can hope for is a wormhole of some sort.

Posted by Woolie Wool on 07-06-2003 11:30 PM:

Re: Space combat will be real in the near future

quote:
Originally posted by nietzshe
we will have to wait until a lot of things get fixed in our own planet like hunger, poverty and illness

Many corrupt third-world strongmen, like those running Somalia, don't want those things to go away (have you ANY idea how much of our foreign aid is lost before it can reach the people it is trying to help?). It's kind of hard to cure the planet of hunger and poverty when demogogues in ****ed-up third-world countries are using them as political tools. As for illness, that will never go away. As long as there are people, there will be disease.

Posted by LOAPhReAk on 07-07-2003 12:20 AM:

did wooly just make a sane statement?

stop the presses!!1

Posted by Bobboau on 07-07-2003 12:26 AM:

he must be quoteing from someone else, or maybe it's just an alt nik

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Posted by killadonuts on 07-07-2003 03:30 AM:

More than any other reason, I think NASA was concieved with the Cold War in mind. Putting aside all the discoveries and inventions they have contributed. After Sputnik and the first Soviet cosmonaut in space, I think NASA was a product of a spooked American government.

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Posted by Woolie Wool on 07-07-2003 06:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bobboau
he must be quoteing from someone else, or maybe it's just an alt nik

Wrong on both counts. I was posting while sober instead of dead drunk.

Posted by Knight Templar on 07-07-2003 06:10 AM:

bah, excuses.

and on the topic: well, duh.

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Posted by Bobboau on 07-07-2003 09:14 AM:

we'll have space wars as soon as we realize how profitable space is, then it'll only be a matter of a day or two before someone retro fits a stick of TNT onto a cargo pod and starts launching them at someone else to get there stuff

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Posted by ~[)ragon~ on 07-07-2003 11:16 PM:

Face the facts there is NO ALIENS! WE wont find a worm hole around here and with space so expensive were no where near close to bein in space let alone living and fighting!

no other countries can even get to space save u.s.a and some parts of europe, and russia. I havn't heard of japan or china having space shuttles but i could be wrong We will need to modify weapons and that could be trillions of dollars plus The international space station is suppost to be a marvel of engineering... I see it as a waist of money. When the space shuttle Columbia blew up everything was grounded! Nasa can't even get rockets up into space safely. Every few years another one blows up! I say its time to develop easier ways of getting into space and puting major resources on building stations! Also I think that If space becomes cheap enough and there are giant space stations then, and only then will they start developing fighters and an aramda and weapsons. But intill that time It will never happen!!

Posted by Woolie Wool on 07-07-2003 11:25 PM:

(edited out due to hitting the enter key accidentally before typing my message. Please give users the ability to delete their own posts)

Posted by Woolie Wool on 07-07-2003 11:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ~[)ragon~
Face the facts there is NO ALIENS! WE wont find a worm hole around here and with space so expensive were no where near close to bein in space let alone living and fighting!

no other countries can even get to space save u.s.a and some parts of europe, and russia. I havn't heard of japan or china having space shuttles but i could be wrong We will need to modify weapons and that could be trillions of dollars plus The international space station is suppost to be a marvel of engineering... I see it as a waist of money. When the space shuttle Columbia blew up everything was grounded! Nasa can't even get rockets up into space safely. Every few years another one blows up! I say its time to develop easier ways of getting into space and puting major resources on building stations! Also I think that If space becomes cheap enough and there are giant space stations then, and only then will they start developing fighters and an aramda and weapsons. But intill that time It will never happen!!

There are almost certainly aliens, but we just haven't found them and they haven't found us.

Space travel and space shuttles are two different things. The following countries have space capability:
USA
Britain
Germany
France
Russia
Israel
Japan
China

Only the U.S. has a reusable launch vehicle (aka space shuttle). The USSR built a prototype called Buran, but it never entered production.

Posted by ~[)ragon~ on 07-08-2003 04:06 AM:

aliens hah thats a joke you obviously don't believe in ny religons or anything also What makes you so sure there are aliens Even though space never ends There will never be aliens! haha what are the chances of there being worlds that could actually hold aliens and have resources for them to grow.. HOW did they start THe big damn bang

that theroy has so many flaws lol So what makes ya think there are and if there are what makes you think we'll come in contact with them and that there superious

Posted by karajorma on 07-08-2003 06:37 AM:

Dragon. Stop talking nonsense. There is a very good chance that their are aliens living elsewhere in the Universe. Even if you're religious the idea isn't automatically rubbish, as far as I know the bible doesn't say that aliens don't exist. It simply doesn't mention them.

Hell, scientists are spending a lot of money looking for life on Mars and Europa. If life exists there it's very doubtful that it doesn't exist somewhere else in the galaxy (let alone universe!)

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Posted by Trivial Psychic on 07-08-2003 07:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ~[)ragon~
Face the facts there is NO ALIENS! WE wont find a worm hole around here and with space so expensive were no where near close to bein in space let alone living and fighting!

no other countries can even get to space save u.s.a and some parts of europe, and russia. I havn't heard of japan or china having space shuttles but i could be wrong We will need to modify weapons and that could be trillions of dollars plus The international space station is suppost to be a marvel of engineering... I see it as a waist of money. When the space shuttle Columbia blew up everything was grounded! Nasa can't even get rockets up into space safely. Every few years another one blows up! I say its time to develop easier ways of getting into space and puting major resources on building stations! Also I think that If space becomes cheap enough and there are giant space stations then, and only then will they start developing fighters and an aramda and weapsons. But intill that time It will never happen!!

I'm sorry to say this, but the future of manned spaceflight is looking rather bleak. At present, the ISS is being supported (logistically if not financially) by Russia and its Soyuz and Progress launch systems (manned and robotic respectively). The Soyuz design, while it may have undergone some upgrades, is based on a design which is older than I am (25) and limited to 3 seats and 6 months in orbit, even when its doing nothing. With out this lifepod attached to the station, no crew can stay there. Plans were underway for a dedicated emergency crew return vehicle that could carry 7, but it was cancelled along with the stations primary propulsion module and dedicated habitation module when Bush took office. One could suggest that a mini-crew module be adapted from other designs in construction, and a second Soyuz module be docked to the station at all times, bringing the crew cappacity to 6, but there is a serious problem with that. According to the original agreement, Russia is only required to provide Soyuz return vehicles until April of 2006 (or was it 2008), and due to budget problems they may be forced to terminate support long before that. This agreement was reached under the assumption that not only would the 7-person Crew Return Vehicle be ready by that point, but a successor to the Space Shuttle would be entering service. At that time, the planned shuttle was expected to be the Venture Star... a highly advanced, single stage to orbit, lifting body design with an efficient linear aerospike engine design that would reduce the cost of getting to orbit by as much as a factor of 100 per pound. This was to be based on an experimental demonstrator... a scale prototype only a few meters in size, called the X-33. Now, design flaws, budget overruns, and delays caused the project to become very much behind schedule, and if I remember correctly, it too was terminated at about the time Bush took office. Now, with the demise of the X-33, a new plan was put forth, called SLI or Space Launch Initiative. The idea was, try to create a design that was about half way between the current Shuttle and what the Venture Star would have been. Something that was not quite so ambitious or costly. The plan was for a mostly reusable, multi-stage design that would be ready by the end of the decade. Now 9/11 forced the US government to change its focus for a time, and such a delay is quite understandable. The problem however, occured when SLI was nearing the end of its conceptualization stage near the beginning of this year (if I remember correctly), when the enture program was suspended pending revue. When the dust settled, the plan became to milk the current space shuttle for all it was worth, for as long as possible, until a mini space-plane could be developped. This design would be able to cary perhaps half the crew of the space shuttle, no cargo beyond light supplies. In addition, with the exception of the orbiter, the enture booster segments would be constructed of pre-existing rocket components and be completely expendable. This space plane would take up the slack from the Soyuz craft in crew exchange and supply shipments, and even take up the role of emergency return craft, also allowing for a slight increase in the number of crew that can stay there at any one time. A major flaw in this thinking is the fact that while rockets are used routinely to launch satalites and probes and may be certified "reliable" for such tasks, they are by no means certified to carry people safely and reliably into orbit. Even if these commercial design rocket designs can be overhauled and certified for human launches, experts have stated that the design for the space plane would be unlikely to be opperational until 2010 or 2012. This leaves a large window between the termination of Soyuz support and the commencement of space plane availability. During that time, by their own rules, no one could stay aboard the station for safety reasons. Some had suggested using the Space Shuttle as an interim, but it can barely stay in orbit a few weeks before having to return to the earth. As I watched these cut-backs and scale-backs take place over the years, I thought to myself "I'm sorry to say this, but its gonna take another space shuttle disaster for NASA and its sister agencies to wake up and finally do something... to make an investment in the future of manned space flight by taking all the advanced technology and materials that have been developped since the Space Shuttle was designed, and put them together into a space launch craft that is safer, cheaper to opperate, and less wasteful than the Shuttle." Not long after that, my prediction came true (the Trivial Psychic... who knew) with the loss of the Columbia. As I mouned the loss of the crew and contemplated NASA's future, I hoped that my prediction of a disaster such as this revitalizing NASA into innovation would too become reality. While the months since the accident have obviously been the focus of investigations and corrective measures, I have heard even less about finding ways of doing away with the old and ushering in the new. In fact, the only nation right now which is in fact preparing to usher in a new age of manned space travel is one who has not yet set foot (so to speak) in space... China. Their designs may be reminiscent of the Soyuz, but at least they show momentum. They even claim to have plans for a space station of their own and eventual moon landings. Now, I tend to take this with a bit of skepticism, but if they can succeed in a manned launch and maintain a working space program, the rest of the world may suddently appear to be standing still.

My conclusion is this: the dream of space has become a childhood fantasy. No one truly believes it can be done anymore. I'm not talking about technological capability, but of the drive to do it. True, during the golden age of space travel and the Apollo era, there was a fear of the Soviets and the national prestige of being the first there (to the moon that is) but the momentum of this drive has only now worn off. While I may not believe that I am truly Psychic, I can see a patter emerging and unless either someone with vision and innovation stands up and shows the community a better way and an attainable goal, or some unforseen event forces such a change, I see things following a path much like the following: 1) When funding for continued Soyuz support craft runs out sooner or later, the station will be put into a sleep mode and placed into a holding orbit before being abandonned. 2) Mounting degredation in the space shuttle infrastructure will force its retirement, or worse. 3) Because of contined re-evaluation of designs and concepts for a successor, a whole tonne of cash will have been spent with no result and as such, the program will be suspended indefinitely. 4) Unmanned satalites and space probes will contine unabated, but as my generation views the moon landing as something that happenned before our time, manned space flight (by American and its partners at least) will become something the generation that follows views only in news recording and Discovery Channel programs on Sunday night.

I don't think I've ever written so much on any messageboard ever. Man, I hadn't planned to say quite that much when I started. To anyone who wishes to rebut anything I've said and needs to quite from this post, I suggest you edit out the parts you need, or this thread is gonna end up super long.

Later!

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Posted by hayabusa on 07-08-2003 03:23 PM:

I`ll write just a bit about the life in space, how all the stuff is seen today.

First of all we know almoust nothing certain about life in space, it`s more or less our predictions.

But even if we supposoe that life n the Universe is something extremely rare, it`s quite certain the Universe is full of life forms. It`s big enough for it. So it`s very possible that rudimentary or primitive forms of life are common and that there are many million of systems in our Galaxy that have forms of life.

The question is more problematic when it comes to the intelligent life. It`s hard to say how rare intelligent forms of life are because it depends on to many factors. For example we do not know which conditions are necessary for the intelligent life to develop. We do not know either how long does a intelligent form exist. It may be about 100 years, it may be 10,000 years, it may be 1,000,000 years as well. I read that, we we concern different factors, it`s possible that there are about 100 civilizations ( in this case civilization is an intelligent form of life with ability to send out signals understsandable signals on long distances) in every galaxy, but it` s possible there`s only one in about 10,000 galaxies.

In fact in both cases the probability to find another civilisationis very small. In out Galaxy there are about 100,000,000,000 stars and maybe even half of them have some planetar systems. Find the one would be difficult.
And if there`s one in every Local Group....

the problem is not lack of life in the Universe. The problem is to find one.

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