VWBB - dear icefire

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- The Babylon Project (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- dear icefire (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=9189)

Posted by redmenace7 on 07-01-2003 08:58 PM:

dear icefire

about what blacksheep said in his staff plans, do you feel the same about the project dying especially after such a buggy release?

Posted by gevatter Lars on 07-01-2003 09:38 PM:

Well I hope that will never happend (see TBP dying)...because even with some bugs, its the best of the mods that have been made so far..even its only a very little of what they want to do.

But if you want to stop this Project...I know who needs good staff...watch over to Wing Commander Saga...they could surly need such good people as you are here.

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Posted by redmenace7 on 07-01-2003 10:51 PM:

in order to really keep it alive we need commintted fredders. a 30-40 mission campaign would be a major help to the longevity of the project.

Posted by karajorma on 07-01-2003 11:16 PM:

*Looks at Lady Rose*

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Posted by FlakBait on 07-02-2003 12:13 AM:

Considering that the modders are unpaid and distributing the product of thier endevours for free I think we should take what we can get and be glad they have so much pride in their work.

If you thinkthis is buggy-just think how bad it would be if Microsoft made it.

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Posted by redmenace7 on 07-02-2003 01:02 AM:

the point I am making is that we need people who are willing to create a campaign for TBP. I am not saying TBP needs to make a huge campaign. But in order to help the project and keep it alive we should create a or four smaller campaigns for all the races: narn, centauri, earth and minbari with about 10 missions in each. I think it would be a good Idea to have planned and sketched out for the release 3:the rest of the narn, centauri and earth. As it stands we can do a second hypotherical earth mindari war campaign.

Posted by BabProj Team on 07-02-2003 01:40 AM:

Re: dear icefire

quote:
Originally posted by redmenace7
about what blacksheep said in his staff plans, do you feel the same about the project dying especially after such a buggy release?

I doubt its dying...but absolutely everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not going to prevent someone from saying what they feel. Its their .Plan, they say what they want (as long as it isn't a release date, then we start the spacing

).

The honest truth however is that the game is getting old and we'll see if interest lasts longer than we do or we last long than interest does. We'll see. Things are always changing, I'm actually not really running the show anymore...IP Andrews is taking over some of that...but I've been learning to texture map anyways. A useful skill hopefully in future endeavors. We'll see.

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Posted by redmenace7 on 07-02-2003 07:02 AM:

i have found that as a fan I am getting exhausted my self and way too busy with summer school to care. But, now the best thing is to force my self to care and get beta testing again for the SCP.

Posted by Mr. Fury on 07-02-2003 07:12 AM:

As I see this, most of the team members are quite young and now they are graduating and getting a job and a life. Some may have time and will to work with the mod regardless, but some may be leaving.

Some are already leaving in the near future. That will become a problem if one of the critical development areas will become shorthanded.

So, in the end there's nothing we can do with people's own personal life which is constantly changing.

You want to keep this mod up and running? Then go and learn something useful for the mod. Such as fredding, texturing or modelling just to name a few.

We have quite exceptional persons among us who are even willing to teach you if you show promise.

We veterans cannot keep this mod running alone. Our interest will eventually wane and our lifes will change.

Although BlackSheep does have a point, I don't agree with it totally. Bug-free release is always important, but rarely possible. If this mod is to die, it is not because of buggy release, it is because of people, both the team and fans. Being buggy is just a drop in the sea.

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Posted by gevatter Lars on 07-02-2003 09:07 AM:

Yup you all are right...very much of a mod depents on the people who are making it....or lets better say what happens in there other life. Since I am also working on a different mod I know that it is quite hard work and you need a quite lot of time. So mostly our staff is just 2-3 working people while the other members have things to do in real life. No wonder that progress is quite slow....special when exams are near or you have only time to work on weekends, where you normaly meet friends.
Sometimes I think modding is much harder then working, because you get no money, have to deal with Fans that aren't liking this or that and you have to shorten your sparetime.
Well its still quite fun to see you work comming to life (damm this Battlecrab is moving again...keep quite you @#§$%& ^___^ )

__________________
The main enemy of creativity is...
good taste!

Posted by Snipes on 07-02-2003 12:48 PM:

Re: Re: dear icefire

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire
The honest truth however is that the game is getting old and we'll see if interest lasts longer than we do or we last long than interest does. We'll see.

I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't play FS anymore. But I do like making, rendering and editting the game models and like.

So as long as there are new ships, and renderring techniques, I'll stick around.

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------------------
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Posted by Lady Rose on 07-02-2003 03:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by redmenace7
in order to really keep it alive we need commintted fredders. a 30-40 mission campaign would be a major help to the longevity of the project.

All good in time, besides there is EA Civil war campaign in made by TBP team, so applauses to them, all big and good takes a lot of time.

quote:
Originally posted by karajorma
*Looks at Lady Rose*

Hey stop staring at me, Kaj!

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Posted by Strider on 07-03-2003 02:19 AM:

I made a complex mission when Release2 happened......but I never relseased it. It is not 100% finished, and I am just too tired, too busy. I am the average fan I believe. I make missions, look forward to new models, ships, etc.

But Im tired......FRED2 is not the best map making program; it is tedius, annoying, and time consuming to say the least.

I can onyl test my mission so many times before I barf.

As well.......the game is old, as Icefire said. If people still want to play, and want the mod, then great. But Im tired and Im not even on the mod team.

Unfortunately there are no other space sims that can be modded really, or to the same extent. They all suck too.

The genre is dieing......just as RPGs were, and needs a boost. I see it being Lucasarts if they smarten up. Unfortunately the prequel universe sucks for ships so far, and we saw no cool ones in Episode2. The Starfighter games were arcady too, as were theRogue Squadron games (Which I liked still).

I dunno.......FS2 is just old, and cant change THAT much. We're busy too, and so is the dev team, with university, and hopefully girls.

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Posted by BabProj Team on 07-03-2003 02:27 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Strider

But Im tired......FRED2 is not the best map making program; it is tedius, annoying, and time consuming to say the least.

I can onyl test my mission so many times before I barf.

Do find me a mission maker that works better than FRED2. As far as I'm concerned...FRED2 is the easiest editor to use, make, and finish a mission. But I'd love to try something that works better than it

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Posted by Sigma957 on 07-03-2003 03:12 AM:

I'll be here for along time yet,texturing is something I enjoy doing now that I can do it

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Posted by GT-Keravnos on 07-03-2003 03:44 AM:

Yep, DEAR Icefire

1. This is a fan project
2. For those who don't know Icefire, go up and play Warzone. You will earn a new appreciation of the man, I did!
3. I respect Blacksheep's opinion, but I must warn you, he is passing through that phase in life (called ARMY), that I have been through myself (my draft ended 6 months ago.). I have spent 1800+ hours on guard duty, or foot patrol duty during the day, and maintaining/oiling AA guns, toilet cleaning, garbage gathering during the day, and desperately trying to sleep when I could. Did I mention the drills and excercises? Did I mention inspections and anti-terrorism training? Again, I fully respect what he is going through, but Blacksheep, as the song goes "...you 're in the Army now".
4. As for the way it was introduced, I am FULLY FOR IT! Sure mistakes were made, but we all wanted it sooner, so that ALL of us could help find and fix any flaws.
----> I am here to shoulder some of the blame, because I am one of those who wanted it yesterday. So, If you have to blame someone, blame me too!!

and something that REALLY NEEDS TO BE SAID:

5. COME ON GUYS IT'S NOT LIKE WE PAID FOR IT!!!!!!!!

6. If you find a better game, that can be fully edited by anyone with a basic knowledge of programming, and spare time, GO TO IT!
7. It has to be said, and I have to say it, that FRED isn't the easiest program around. True enough. But, instead of blaming the program of not working my way, I blame myself for not understanding how FRED works. Like any editor it has its quirks. I mean the .txt editor that comes with windows has them. You couldn't expect FRED not to.
8. Those guys working on the MOD, Icefire first and foremost, because he was responsible for vol. 2 as a leader, HAVE GIVEN UP TIME AND so much more else... so that we can fly the starfury.
9. When reading what Blacksheep said you come away with the conclusion that we have a disaster waiting to happen, that things don't work at all, etc. but they do!
10. Not many missions you say... I got 10+ fan made missions on my mission folder. If people have the tools, they WILL make missions, campaigns, what have you. As for the mission Blacksheep lost, well, accidents happen. That's all.

11. To end this with an odd number I fully wish Icefire well, and I do hope that his relinquishing the LEAD post wasn't because of what Blacksheep said. Because I, and a lot of others say otherwise. I fully respect Icefire+team, and the job he has produced and coordinated, and is producing, and I am sure that others do too.

FOR ME TBP IS A DREAM COME TRUE, A DREAM THAT MIXES MY FAVE GAME WITH MY FAVE UNIVERSE AND GIVES ME THE TOOLS TO USE MY IMAGINATIONS TO MAKE THAT UNIVERSE (B5) AS I SEE FIT.

That is something to feel gracious about, not bitter, not by a longshot.

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Posted by Strider on 07-03-2003 07:14 AM:

FRED2 is just tedius.......could be so much simpler. But there isn't much out there that is better.

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Posted by karajorma on 07-03-2003 07:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Strider
FRED2 is just tedius.......could be so much simpler. But there isn't much out there that is better.

Seriously. What could be made simpler without making it less powerful? There isn't a lot I can see.

Posted by Ashark on 07-03-2003 10:15 AM:

_My Plan: Nothing what so ever to ever do again.....

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Posted by Ghostavo on 07-03-2003 11:46 AM:

Well said GT-Keravnos

TBP is "our last best hope to fly the starfury" as it is written in the site.

Don't complain... please.
Imagine how would you feel if you created something great, something beyond anything made until now, and then someone(s) would come up to you and tell you it's crap?!?

Good luck TBP crew... and may the next release be as good as the ones until now.

P.S.
What the hell happened to the B5 mod for BCM?!?

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