VWBB - Do you think the Lucifer's shields...

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- FreeSpace 1/2 Discussion (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=33)
-- Do you think the Lucifer's shields... (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=7990)

Posted by F S W on 12-25-2002 09:13 PM:

Do you think the Lucifer's shields...

...would be able to withstand a supernova?

Posted by Lady Rose on 12-25-2002 09:59 PM:

Defianently not. If Supernova can whipe out planets and anything else I seriously doubt that Lucifers shields could withstand that blast.

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Posted by ns33 on 12-25-2002 10:20 PM:

Right, the Lucy's shields were designed to be impenetrable to fighter/bomb/capship energy weapons, which are thousands of times weaker than the energy outputted by a nuclear reaction even. It can withstand a dozen BFReds, but not a nova.

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Posted by Lady Rose on 12-25-2002 10:49 PM:

I wouldn't be sure if Lucifers shields could stand dozen BFRed's. After all tech has advanced and why Sathanas dont have shields if those could stand against strongest of the beams?

Posted by Echelon IV on 12-25-2002 11:13 PM:

Of course, as long as the invulnerable sexp is active

Ok, I don't think it can withstand any beam weapon, because beamweapons are piercing shields.

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Posted by Mr. Fury on 12-25-2002 11:44 PM:

I suppose that Lucifer was a prototype ship, or only one of it's class was ever made. There is probably some logical reason why only Lucifer has such super shields.

Perhaps Sathanas class is even older ship class than Lucifer is. It seems that Sathanases are even larger in numbers than regular destroyers are. Or so FS2 hints.

Because beams are indeed shield piercing, there is a possibility that Lucifer class ships are used to lead scouting/extermination party into territories of low-tech species.

In FS2 they did not use Lucifer class ships because of GTVA did have beam weaponry capable of piercing shields. Instead Shivans used pure firepower to destroy GTVA capital ships --> Sathanases.

OK, this is all only speculation. But unfortunately it will be all we have for time being. Damn.

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Posted by castor on 12-26-2002 01:58 AM:

http://www.science.psu.edu/journal/Sum2000/Supernova.htm

"Now the shock wave from the explosion is about to hit that same ring of gas. Our X-ray image shows the prequel of this cosmic collision, a region of invisible, ionized gas just inside the ring that has been heated by this shock wave to temperatures higher than the temperature at the center of the Sun. "

..damn hot stuff!

Posted by Icer on 12-26-2002 04:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I suppose that Lucifer was a prototype ship, or only one of it's class was ever made. There is probably some logical reason why only Lucifer has such super shields.
Perhaps Sathanas class is even older ship class than Lucifer is. It seems that Sathanases are even larger in numbers than regular destroyers are. Or so FS2 hints.
Because beams are indeed shield piercing, there is a possibility that Lucifer class ships are used to lead scouting/extermination party into territories of low-tech species.
In FS2 they did not use Lucifer class ships because of GTVA did have beam weaponry capable of piercing shields. Instead Shivans used pure firepower to destroy GTVA capital ships --> Sathanases.
OK, this is all only speculation. But unfortunately it will be all we have for time being. Damn.

So you think that the Lucifer was the advance force that would go in and eliminate the races (i.e. vasuda prime), then the Sathanas fleet is the main fleet that comes in to destroy the star systems? ... hmm, the Shivans truly are "the destroyers"

Actually this does sound like another plausible theory on Shivans to me!

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Posted by Ace on 12-26-2002 08:09 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ns33
Right, the Lucy's shields were designed to be impenetrable to fighter/bomb/capship energy weapons, which are thousands of times weaker than the energy outputted by a nuclear reaction even. It can withstand a dozen BFReds, but not a nova.

So let's see:
1) Tsunami Space Bomb-Antimatter
2) Harbinger-Fusion and Three Salted Fission devices
3) Helios Space Bomb-Antimatter

The Lucifer's shields were immune to both. The weapons you mentioned being thousands of times weaker than a nuclear reaction? No. The Lucifer's shields being immune to nuclear weapons? No. Claiming that Volition didn't truly mean what the tech descriptions state to make your arguement work? Sure you could try that as many in the past have, but what's in FS is the canon for these discussions.

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Posted by BananaOfTheNight on 12-26-2002 10:44 AM:

ns33 said that the Lucy's shields are immune to energy weapons, which are weaker than a nuclear reaction of that scale. Also, the warheads in the torpedoes have a yield that is many millionths, if not billionths of the energy output by a dying star in the final convulsions of its life.
Lhe Lucy can easily resist damage from the (comparatively) puny weapons of the GTA/PVN, but it should almost certainly be destroyed by the immense cosmic forces of a supernova. The energy dissipation capacity of a shield should be directly proportional to the amount of energy put into the shield to keep it up, and with 5 Shivan reactors (which are almost certainly thousands of times more powerful then GTVA powerplants) feeding the shield, it should be able to withstand impacts of hundreds of torpedoes, but nothing like a supernova, which probably has the destructive power of millions of Helios-type weapons. Perhaps we should ask [V] ?
Whether it could stand the Vorlon planet killer is another matter .

[EDIT] Beam weapons only penetrate shields because of a bug in the FS2 code. If life were governed by bugs and mistakes, then the Colossus may still be alive due to the mission designer forgetting to beam-free-all the Sathanas [/EDIT]

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Posted by ns33 on 12-26-2002 06:23 PM:

Clearing up for Ace: The reactions that I mentioned was about stellar nuclear fission reactions. Yes, the Harbinger, Helios, Cyclops, and Tsunami use nuclear fission to release nuclear energy (in a "conventional" nuclear explosion??), taking a hit on one part of the Lucy's hull is comparable to shooting a tank with a handgun. But in a nova, you replace that handgun with a bazooka or a Stinger, and you could easily destroy the thing.

Now the argument that the Lucy was just a prototype and that there is only one, we can't say what [V] really meant. Theres no way of determining the role of a ship with only one in existance (or as far as we know).

quote:
Posted by Mr. Fury
Perhaps Sathanas class is even older ship class than Lucifer is. It seems that Sathanases are even larger in numbers than regular destroyers are. Or so FS2 hints.

The probability of that are low. The Sathanas imo was built to be a beam platform. Its 4 main beams yes could be used for conventional turrets, but the massive size of the thing makes it unlikely. But if you think about the sheer number of them in existence, it just might be a possibility...

quote:
Posted by Lady Rose
After all tech has advanced and why Sathanas dont have shields if those could stand against strongest of the beams?

The Sathanas was most likely built only as a gunship platform. The Lucy had shields because the Shivans faced off against the Ancients... it was the Lucy (or so we presume) that destroyed or at least spearheaded the campaign for the destruction of the race. The superior technology that the Shivans faced against was reason enough for shielding. In the Great War, the PVN/GTA had absolutely nothing that could face up to the Lucy. Yes, GTA/PVN destroyed the Lucy, but the Shivans may have not cared because we destroyed it unconventionally, as in, not with normal weapons. They may have assumed the same thing thirty years later when they deployed the Sathanas to GTVA space, except this time we build a ship of equal size: the Colossus.

Its hard to say what Shivan intentions are at all, or that of their technology. The captured Dragon fighter that you play shoulsd be explained in more detail further in the campaign, or at least in the tech room to clarify on Shivan technology.

Posted by Lady Rose on 12-26-2002 06:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ns33
Its hard to say what Shivan intentions are at all, or that of their technology. The captured Dragon fighter that you play shoulsd be explained in more detail further in the campaign, or at least in the tech room to clarify on Shivan technology.

I agree with that, but it's still kind of a natural that tech keeps coming more and more advanced. But I seriously doubt that any motives or goals of Shivan comes any clearer to GTVA, they are acient race and they probably think a way much different way than Humans or Vasudans.

Posted by Knight Templar on 12-27-2002 05:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bannana

Beam weapons only penetrate shields because of a bug in the FS2 code. If life were governed by bugs and mistakes, then the Colossus may still be alive due to the mission designer forgetting to beam-free-all the Sathanas

err.. where did you see/hear this?

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Posted by Fetty on 12-27-2002 05:54 AM:

actualy the sathanas is for blowing up suns

and hangun to tank and bazooka to tank ?
more likly a bazooka with a 30000 meter radius barrel/rocket/explosive thingi

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Posted by Mr. Fury on 12-27-2002 06:07 AM:

Knight Templar, I was wondering the same thing.
If it would be a bug in code, it would be much simpler to fix that bug rather than write a new code for beams hitting shields...

Posted by F S W on 12-27-2002 07:06 PM:

Nobody has said anything about distance!

Posted by ns33 on 12-27-2002 09:40 PM:

What about distance? Most beams are specified as having unlimited range (although I find that hard to believe; think of the massive [infinite?] amount of energy needed), and power of the beams and turrets are not affected by distance. Regular turret rounds just disappear after reaching a certain distance, and so do missiles and regular fighter/bomber guns. IMO, I dont think distance would be a factor in determining whether or not a weapon is powerful enough.

Posted by ltnarol on 12-27-2002 10:34 PM:

My personal opinion:

Sathanas == Shivan Trailer Homes

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Posted by ns33 on 12-28-2002 03:38 AM:

Then what do they really live in? Fluidic space? Empty space? Or a hugeass ship that just orbits a star (more like a planet?)...

Posted by BananaOfTheNight on 12-28-2002 11:41 AM:

I saw that in Sesquipedalian's hilarious campaign 'Deus Ex Machina', Knight Templar. OK, maybe not a bug, possibly an omission by the coders. Never mind.
Also, distance is a factor, as an energy weapon (beam or pulse) will disperse over distance, making it less powerful - it warms rather than obliterates.

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