VWBB - OT-Rogue Leader for Gamecube

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Posted by Strider on 10-15-2001 06:10 AM:

OT-Rogue Leader for Gamecube

Anyone planning on getting Nintendo's new syste, the Gamecube?

It is featuring a LucasArts title, on release of the system, called Rogue Squadron II-Rogue Leader.

Its a StarWars (Trilogy era) space shooter, more arcade style than FS2 and such. Kick @$$ graphics, planetary and space levels, and did I mention good graphics? No, I mentioned kick @$$ graphics.

Two examples:

-Death Star trench run, and full deathstar level....fly all around it. Amazing.

- Once the Death Star has been destroyed, you return in a new mission. It is a ultra debris field and nebula kind of, and provides a great experience.

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Posted by Kevok on 10-15-2001 10:03 AM:

Do you know what the really cool part about that Nebula level is?

Its made using volumetric fogging, so when your x-wing or a tie fighter flies through it the gas swirls in your wake

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Posted by venom2506 on 10-15-2001 10:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kevok
Its made using volumetric fogging

If that's true, then LucasArt seriously improved their coding skills. It takes hours to render an anim with volumetric fog with 3dsmax....

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Posted by Alphakiller on 10-15-2001 06:34 PM:

yeah, they're doing it realtime on a GameCube too

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Posted by Strider on 10-15-2001 10:31 PM:

http://cube.ign.com/news/39084.html

Check some screens, and look around. It is just breathtaking.....I just need to work a little more, then buy the system. Thank.....whoever, that it is a launch title!

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Posted by Fuzzy Modem on 10-15-2001 11:31 PM:

Volumetrics in game a VERY different that in a rendering engine. They rely heavily on alpha blending and point-to-point dynamic instancing. Looking at the screen shots they cut down on render time by having a single toned shader aswell- look carefully, all the colors in the nebula are different shades of the same green. Nice effect though. Quite impressive. I may have to find a version ported to IRIX.

Freelancer will have volumetric nebulas aswell.
lancersreactor.com

Posted by Alphakiller on 10-16-2001 03:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fuzzy Modem
I may have to find a version ported to IRIX.

Irix? What's that?

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Posted by Fuzzy Modem on 10-16-2001 04:33 AM:

IRIX is a version of UNIX used by SGI among others.

Posted by Xaphod_x on 10-16-2001 11:04 AM:

therefore it's probably the version that was made in the first place... Nintendo use SGI still don't they?

Also, the volumetricity WILL be faked. It CAN'T be done in real time, but the "faking" is getting a LOT better.

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Posted by IceFire on 10-16-2001 05:59 PM:

I'm totally into GameCube and Rogue Leader.

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-16-2001 06:24 PM:

I'm still not convinced about the GameCube... Had it been N64 compatible I probably would have bought one, Zeldas A Link to the Past and Majoras Mask and whatever Zelda games came out for GC but since its not and they gayed up the GC Zelda I probably won't buy one until I've had a good oppurtunity to sample whatever other games come out for it.

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Posted by Santiago on 10-17-2001 02:21 AM:

No other system was backwards compatible

That Nintendo made, how could you possibly think that they would waste the time and money to make a disk based system backwards compatible with a cart system?

"Gayed" it up? Ok, let me know when you actually play it.

Posted by Galen on 10-17-2001 06:21 AM:

buy a PS2 like me!

Galen

Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-17-2001 02:16 PM:

Re: No other system was backwards compatible

quote:
Originally posted by Santiago
That Nintendo made, how could you possibly think that they would waste the time and money to make a disk based system backwards compatible with a cart system?

Its not as difficult as you think it is to make hardware backwards compatible, all that really needed to be done was use the same CPU the N64 did in some other task (like sound processing) and tap the data/adress buses to form a cartridge slot. Write some clever BIOS routines to tie it all together and your done but then we are talking about a company who made backlighting on their new-generation handheld the last priority and not the first here...

quote:
"Gayed" it up? Ok, let me know when you actually play it.

http://cube.ign.com/news/37692.html?3991.290.6

Had Nintendo kept their original Ocarina of time-style concept on the Cube Zelda I probably would have given the GC more than a passing glance but since Nintendo seem more than happy to continue marketing its stuff to children with little regard to their older fans they've offically lost one sale for the time being. If any other games come out that look interesting (and don't also appear on the PS2) I might contemplate buying one but for now the PS2 has everything I want: DVD Playback and backwards compatibility.

Posted by Alphakiller on 10-17-2001 02:58 PM:

Re: Re: No other system was backwards compatible

quote:
Originally posted by Admiral LSD

Had Nintendo kept their original Ocarina of time-style concept on the Cube Zelda I probably would have given the GC more than a passing glance but since Nintendo seem more than happy to continue marketing its stuff to children with little regard to their older fans they've offically lost one sale for the time being. If any other games come out that look interesting (and don't also appear on the PS2) I might contemplate buying one but for now the PS2 has everything I want: DVD Playback and backwards compatibility.

Um...no.
Nintendo's trying hard to ditch the kiddy image. They just got Resident Evil - yeah the entire series - and exclusive on RE4. The reason '64 got the kid label is Pokemon - and the fact that Nintendo forgot about third party developers

... not so with GC.

(plus, Conker? Perfect Dark? Bueller? Bueller?)

Second, just because it looks stylized doesn't make it kiddy. I bet you think all "cartoons" are kiddy, too. Why do you compare a simple art style to "kid game" ? I mean, ok, hyper-realism=adult, not=kid? Right. Divide by zero error! Plus since you've never played the game...shut up. I absolutely despise bashing something based on a screenshot

when play value is what matters.

Third, if you want DVD playback, that's a valid point. Nintendo (the CEO anyway) has said "GC is for games. Nothing more." Which is why it will retail for $50 less than a PS2

Plus...making GC (a disc-based system) backwards-compatible with 64 (a cart system) would be ... uh... almost impossible. Your example of making the sound CPU the '64 CPU would be valid if Nintendo hadn't basically revolutionized their entire design process with GC - its' designed to be lean and mean, and putting the 64CPU as a sound controller would've been kinda bloaty IIRC. I remember reading about this a while ago. So again, if you want backwards compatibiliy the PS2 is a better choice, yes.

Just don't make up bs reasons for it.

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Posted by aldo_14 on 10-17-2001 03:05 PM:

N64 was apparently notriously hard coding for..... plus the cost of the medium.

I like the GC, but I'm hedging my bets based until best footie titles to come out for all the next-gen consoles. although I turned down (the opportunity of) a marketing job for the X-box launch.

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-17-2001 04:44 PM:

Re: Re: Re: No other system was backwards compatible

quote:
Originally posted by Alphakiller
Um...no.
Nintendo's trying hard to ditch the kiddy image. They just got Resident Evil - yeah the entire series - and exclusive on RE4. The reason '64 got the kid label is Pokemon - and the fact that Nintendo forgot about third party developers ... not so with GC.

(plus, Conker? Perfect Dark? Bueller? Bueller?)

Nintendo have been trying to shed the kiddy image since the days of the SNES. Remember the original Mortal Kombat? Versions released on the Sega machines all had codes you can enter to get the blood back but on the SNES it was removed entirely. They even removed all the swastikas from the port of Wolf3D. They trashed this this policy in time for Mortal Kombat II and have been trying to sway public opinion ever since.

I have never ever said, here or anywhere else, that the N64 didn't have any adult themed games however most of them took a back seat to Nintendos much more profitable kid-oriented franchises. In fact, Pokemon brought Nintendo back from the brink of collapse. Nintendo have to do far more to make people believe that they're more than just the "Pokemon company."

quote:
[B]Second, just because it looks stylized doesn't make it kiddy. I bet you think all "cartoons" are kiddy, too. Why do you compare a simple art style to "kid game" ? I mean, ok, hyper-realism=adult, not=kid? Right. Divide by zero error! Plus since you've never played the game...shut up. I absolutely despise bashing something based on a screenshot when play value is what matters.[B]

Like earlier comments I've made on WinXPs "Luna" shell (which I'm quite happily using right now and is more functional than I thought it was going to be), making the box and controllers purple doesn't say "stylised" to me. It screams "designed by kids, for kids." To me, the PS2 looks more stylish but maybe I'm just boring... Oh and the way it stands vertically is pretty cool too However I've been using Luna almost the entire time I've been using XP and have grown accustomed to it. Maybe the same will happen with the GC *shrugs*

Given the fact that my PS2 is currently displaying the menu from an Anime DVD I don't think all cartoons are kiddy. Quite the opposite in fact. While play value is more important, I, like many other Zelda fans (read IGNs poll in that link I posted, 25% of respondents said that "it was the worst day of their lives") are wondering what Nintendo were smoking when they switched from the original OoT-style game (it could look like Links Awakening for all I care) to this "interactive cartoon." I think its best summed up like this:

quote:
almost everything about zelda is geared toward children, but what miyamoto DIDN'T take into consideration is those children that he geared the legacy to begin with, aren;t KIDS anymore. we grew up, which means he is forgetting about us

quote:
[B]Third, if you want DVD playback, that's a valid point. Nintendo (the CEO anyway) has said "GC is for games. Nothing more." Which is why it will retail for $50 less than a PS2

I honestly believe that Nintendo are going to get left behind again because of that. When Sony entered the market with a machine aimed at older audiences (which was Nintendos fault anyway, they had the oppurtunity to have Sony as an ally but got gold feet. Six years later Sony came back with a vengeance) Nintendo thought it could just keep marketing its stuff to children and all would be rosy. 7 years and 17 million sales later proved otherwise. Now we have Sony and even M$ touting consoles as "Home Entertainment Hubs" with broadband internet access, DVD playback etc. By blatantly spitting into the wind of what could possibly be the next revolution in console gaming (although to give credit where its due Sega did start it) I think Nintendo are going to come out on the bottom again.

quote:
Plus...making GC (a disc-based system) backwards-compatible with 64 (a cart system) would be ... uh... almost impossible. Your example of making the sound CPU the '64 CPU would be valid [b]if Nintendo hadn't basically revolutionized their entire design process with GC - its' designed to be lean and mean, and putting the 64CPU as a sound controller would've been kinda bloaty IIRC. I remember reading about this a while ago. So again, if you want backwards compatibiliy the PS2 is a better choice, yes. Just don't make up bs reasons for it.

A similar argument is made whenever the lack of backlighting on the GBA is brought up. Nintendos word on that is apparently that it would have increased the cost of the GBA by about $US40. To me thats no excuse considering the lack of backlight is one of the biggest weaknesses of the GB, GB Pocket and GB Color. What they should have done is added backlighting first and designed the rest of the GBA around that culling features to make up for the extra $US40.

The same can be said about the Gamecube. Nintendo should really have thought about adding backward compatibility from the beginning, its not that difficult to implement really when you stop to think about it. There is really no major difference between a CD based sytem and a cartridge based sytem apart from the presence of a CD mechanism and circuitry to extract the data of said CDs, look at how easily Sega added CD capabilities to the Genesis Mega Drive, the Sega/Mega CD was essentially slaved into the host Genesis.

The problem is too many people look at the GC as it stands now and say its too difficult to do this or that instead of going back a bit and actually thinking about whether it could have been designed in or not.

Posted by CrazyEddie on 10-17-2001 05:25 PM:

Admiral, I disagree with everything you said. Other than the visual style of the GC Zelda, everything is essentially the same as the N64 Zeldas, same kind of gameplay, etc. The reason Nintendo excluded backlighting from the GBA was battery life, a GBA gets 14-20 hours of gameplay off 2 AA batteries, if they'd but in backlighting it would have dropped to closer to 4-6 hours. cartridge backwards compatibility is NOT a viable option for a system of the GameCube's size based entirely on optical media, the Sega CD was an ADD ON for a cartridge based system. If you want DVD playback, Panasonic is making a hybrid GameCube DVD player, it'll probably be significantly more expensive than the base GC, though.

Posted by Admiral LSD on 10-17-2001 05:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CrazyEddie
Admiral, I disagree with everything you said. Other than the visual style of the GC Zelda, everything is essentially the same as the N64 Zeldas, same kind of gameplay, etc.

Then why change the visual style to appeal more to a younger audience? It makes no sense.

quote:
The reason Nintendo excluded backlighting from the GBA was battery life, a GBA gets 14-20 hours of gameplay off 2 AA batteries, if they'd but in backlighting it would have dropped to closer to 4-6 hours.

Again this comment is based on the form the release GBA took. Get some form of rechargable battery pack, preferably based on Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) technology, and low current circuitry and you should be fine.

quote:
cartridge backwards compatibility is NOT a viable option or a system of the GameCube's size based entirely on optical media, the Sega CD was an ADD ON for a cartridge based system.

Why not? You could put the cartridge slot behind the disk tray (I think the Saturn had some kind of memory pack slot behind its disk tray. Sega really should of made it a Mega Drive cartridge slot, the hardware was there, the Saturn used the same 68000 uP that the Mega Drive used as its CPU for the sound controller). The fact that the Sega CD was an addon is irrelevant. The Sega CD tapped into the expansion port (an extension of the cartridge slot, the MD/G bus if you like). Nintendo could have pulled off something similar with the GC regardless of whether or not its based on optical media or not. Early PCs were based on magnetic media but they had CDROM drives bolted on by your logic that would have been impossible.

quote:
If you want DVD playback, Panasonic is making a hybrid GameCube DVD player, it'll probably be significantly more expensive than the base GC, though.

And looks 10x as ugly...

Posted by Alphakiller on 10-17-2001 06:24 PM:

That part I agree with 100% ... the DVD/GC is ugly. Yuck.

By the way, stylizing graphics != "making them for kiddies" damn it!

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