VWBB - Discussion: Shivan territory

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Posted by Ace on 01-03-2002 08:37 PM:

Discussion: Shivan territory

This is a bit of an evolution of the earlier Do Shivans Have Installations? thread that did very well.

In FS2 we do see a small bit of Shivan space beyond Knossos 2. What are your opinions on it? Dead worlds like Vasuda Prime and Altair? Primitive (pre-subspace) races surrounded by a Sathanas fleet?

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-03-2002 08:41 PM:

well, I don't think it was shivan space. To me it was just a rendez-vous point for shivans, it was usefull because of the knossos and everything. I don't imagine shivan space. I'm not far from thinking shivan have no space at all, or even rather than everywhere, it's shivan space. Voila

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Posted by Zeronet on 01-03-2002 09:56 PM:

Shivan territory or at least occupied territory seems to be nebula's. They did the same thing to the system beyond Gamma D as they did to Capella and its possible Gamma D will end up the same as the other system beyond the nebula.

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-03-2002 11:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zeronet
Shivan territory or at least occupied territory seems to be nebula's. They did the same thing to the system beyond Gamma D as they did to Capella and its possible Gamma D will end up the same as the other system beyond the nebula.

I doubt it. First, why would they need that many nebulas? The one we know wasn't exactyly full of shivans, I mean, there was, what, a fleet? It's nothing likle if a whole shivan colony fleet went there and settled in the place. Plus why would they've turned this particular system into a nebula when they obviously came from even farther away (they came from even farther than the other system, the one with the commnodes).
Another thing is that shivans would be damn patient. capella will be unuseable for ships for thousands of years, time needed for the gas to cool down. That also means that the nebulae in FS2 exists for milleniums. I don't say shivans are not patient, but that's extreme: this nebulae, as it is so old, would be full of shivans by that time, if they created it to live there.

Posted by Zeronet on 01-03-2002 11:48 PM:

I said occupied territory.

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-03-2002 11:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zeronet
I said occupied territory.

When France was occupied, there was nazis everywhere.

Posted by Zeronet on 01-04-2002 12:18 AM:

Space is different. The shivans only occupied the territory, they didnt build ships etc in it.

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-04-2002 12:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zeronet
Space is different. The shivans only occupied the territory, they didnt build ships etc in it.

bah anyway, my answer was about the "shivan territory" part, and not the "or at least occupied", nah!

Posted by sandwich on 01-04-2002 01:40 AM:

I'm too tired to be serious for now, so I'll just respond with a joke that seems appropriate:

Q: Where do you let an 800-pound gorilla sit?

A: (highlight to read)Anywhere he wants to!

See my point? No? Bah...!

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Posted by IceFire on 01-04-2002 03:52 PM:

I'm rather liking Venom's idea that Shivan "space" really isn't anything a'tall. Perhaps Shivans could be better described as nomadic. There's nothing that really contradicts that notion at the moment.

I do get the feeling that they are everywhere....and yet nowhere. However, for the purposes of a campaign, they must be *somewhere* or they must have terroritories and areas where they pass very frequently.

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Posted by aldo_14 on 01-04-2002 04:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire
I'm rather liking Venom's idea that Shivan "space" really isn't anything a'tall. Perhaps Shivans could be better described as nomadic. There's nothing that really contradicts that notion at the moment.

I do get the feeling that they are everywhere....and yet nowhere. However, for the purposes of a campaign, they must be *somewhere* or they must have terroritories and areas where they pass very frequently.

It's an assumption, of course, to assume that Shivans are even interested in controlling systems. We haven't seen anything to indicate they aren't simply migrating or travelling.... an enormous fleet would take the time between the Lucifer and the Sathanas fleet reaching GTVA space... we may have merely tweaked their interest in the same way and the Ancients did....

Or, they could control regions of subspace, sending the small Sathanas fleet to couteract possible threats and, if necessarry, launch a beacon in subspace by altering the gravitational alignment of that region - i.e. destroying a star.

Or they could be running, and not willing to spare the resources to secure a planet.

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Posted by Ace on 01-04-2002 09:04 PM:

Well we see no evidence that a ship can exist in sub-space other then within a corridor, where a ship is "pulled" through. (probably something to do with how realspace catalyses with sub-space in making our tunnel and the "blue portals")

So I doubt because of this that Shivans live or control parts of sub-space other then holding node clusters.

Actually the whole Nylarathotep thing in Derelict, though a "kewl" idea, I'm not sure if it "really works."

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-05-2002 01:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ace
Well we see no evidence that a ship can exist in sub-space other then within a corridor, where a ship is "pulled" through. (probably something to do with how realspace catalyses with sub-space in making our tunnel and the "blue portals")

So I doubt because of this that Shivans live or control parts of sub-space other then holding node clusters.

Actually the whole Nylarathotep thing in Derelict, though a "kewl" idea, I'm not sure if it "really works."

yeah, plus the fact that once in the corridor, it would have been sucked to the exit node, and wouldn't have satyed there like that.

Posted by Ace on 01-05-2002 01:27 AM:

Also I believe it was mentioned in the FS universe document that the 42m/s and higher speed per mass rating of capital ships is due to the sub-space "shearing" or some other effect on realspace. (also the 42 is a Hitchicker's reference )

Which means when a node collapses, the realspace matter would be annihilated.

Now since each node you open is on it's own frequency, opening a node within an existing one is probably possible, but there is a chance it could cause a "Bonehead manuver" like in B5 (that or you need a specially modified sub-space drive for such "tunnel shifts")

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Posted by Zeronet on 01-05-2002 03:37 AM:

Shivans value systems all right, not their planets, just their asteroids and nodes. A node is the shivan equvilant of gold They do set up bases and sathanas's are built somewhere.

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-05-2002 01:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zeronet
Shivans value systems all right, not their planets, just their asteroids and nodes. A node is the shivan equvilant of gold They do set up bases and sathanas's are built somewhere.

maybe not. Maybe they have tousands of thousands of sathanas somewhere, built back some milleniums ago, and they just grab the ones they need?

Posted by Zeronet on 01-05-2002 03:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by venom2506

maybe not. Maybe they have tousands of thousands of sathanas somewhere, built back some milleniums ago, and they just grab the ones they need?

Well you said it yourself, "built". So your disagreement is actually an agreement that they are built somewhere.

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Posted by venom2506 on 01-05-2002 04:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zeronet

Well you said it yourself, "built". So your disagreement is actually an agreement that they are built somewhere.

that they had been

okok, but maybe they're built in dedicated ships?

Posted by IceFire on 01-05-2002 05:10 PM:

Mobile construction vessels. Mammoth vessels....but mobile.

Posted by Zeronet on 01-05-2002 05:29 PM:

They'd still occupy territory, like nebula's so that they can mine their resources. Sathanas might be built on moving ships but the ships wouldnt move while building them as it would be easier to get resources to the ships. Anyway i'd like to see a Shivan Mobile Construction ship

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