VWBB - Little question about Minbari neutron guns

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Posted by White-SF on 10-17-2001 05:17 PM:

Little question about Minbari neutron guns

At first I have to say that your solution looks great when taking into account that FS2 never had beam weapons as fighter primary weapons.

Now the question:

Could it be that the beams are not fast enough?

I mean, when the Nials stand still, the beam "shots" seam perfectly positioned at the muzzles of the guns, but the higher your speed is, the farther the ship sided end of the beam travels behind the muzzle and even behind the fighter.... I presume you would have solved this if it was possible, but perhaps you could simply explain why this is happening?

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Posted by spessu on 10-17-2001 06:18 PM:

I agree, it looks pretty stupid when a Nial shoots. Hope you'll fix it in the future...

Posted by Londo Molari on 10-17-2001 06:36 PM:

I don't think they can fix it.

In a newtonian engine game, the bolts would shoot out using the ship as the inertial frame of reference (the ship's speed will be added onto the weapons)... but in Freespace 1/2, the weapons on any ship, use the whole map as an inertial frame of reference.... (no matter the speed of the ship, the weapon's speed if fixed)

which means:

- if you're going at 30 m/s your weapon bolts will travel at say 50 m/s
- but you're going at 100 m/s, your weapon bolts will still travel at 50m/s (and might even be left behind)

one way to make it SEEM like the problem is fixed, is to make the weapons shoot out REAL fast... but that would result in firing more weapons, and would load the 3D card with polygons... or it would look very wierd...

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Posted by White-SF on 10-17-2001 06:47 PM:

@Londo:

Thanks for the explanation... That's what I wanted to know. Wish there would be a solution.

@spessu:

That's not what I intended to say. I suppose you should read my post again...

Posted by IceFire on 10-17-2001 07:15 PM:

Londo's explanation was almost right on the money.

Part of the problem is that were using tails on the bolts to simulate the effect of a beam. Initially we used bolts that fired at 0.01 intervals. Unfortunately, it slowed most peoples systems down.

So were using tails on our shots and they stream out behind the ship.

Sorry, nothing we can do about that.

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Posted by FSF Ashrak on 10-17-2001 08:20 PM:

wait a sec you made NEUTRON blasters on nials why not make beams on blue star like that then WE could take out novas like we take out hyperions on nials

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Posted by White-SF on 10-17-2001 08:39 PM:

Still it looks awfully cool when at 0m/s firing at a target holding down the trigger all the time... it really looks like a beam then, just perfekt without the trails behind the nial. It's a pity it can't be always that way...

By the way, I found out during the mission by TS_Shadow, that you start to use those neutron guns like you are supposed to use beam weapons... let the target simply fly through it. Damn, it really works.

Well... something to add: The trails only show up when at higher speeds. No possibility to tweak it just a bit so that they first appear at least at even higher speeds?

Posted by IceFire on 10-18-2001 01:13 PM:

No, we have no control over that. Just the duration that they last. Not at what speed.

Posted by White-SF on 10-18-2001 01:39 PM:

In my last post, I meant the length of that trail - or as you said, tail, not the speed of the bolts... The speed I was talking about was the speed of the fighter itself.

I mean, if you would change it so that it looks as if the bolts were forming about 3 meters in front of the muzzles when at 0m/s, they wouldn't travel that much behind it when the fighters is going at 50m/s, would it?

Posted by White-SF on 10-18-2001 04:38 PM:

Another idea:

Aren't there muzzles defined in the model? Put them farther ahead... Better to have the beams appear 3m in front at 0m/s than to have them go through it at 50m/s, or not?

I mean, how are the points defined the shots come out from? Is it a 3d object or something simply defined by coordinates?

Posted by Mewgen1 on 10-19-2001 02:59 AM:

Would it shock you people to know that some of us really dont care where the beams appear? And I personally thinkt the BP people did very good job of doing something that the game wasn't ever really made to do.

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Posted by spessu on 10-19-2001 10:28 AM:

White-SF, That's not what I intended to say either

I mean...

1. A Nial fighter is flying at high speed...
2. It shoots...
3. Looks weird because those beams "penetrate" into the fighter.
4. In the other words, the Nial fighter is flying "on the beams"...

Am I making myself absolutely crystal clear!?

Posted by White-SF on 10-19-2001 12:24 PM:

I know exactly what you mean, I even agree with you in all points, where is the problem?

Posted by IceFire on 10-19-2001 12:26 PM:

But I think it would look worse to have the beams appear at 3 meters infront than on the model.

Flying the ship as player ship might be made incredibly more difficult.

This is pretty much another one of those moot issues. There isn't much we can do about it.

Posted by White-SF on 10-19-2001 12:32 PM:

About the 3 meters: How much of the time is the Nial going at 0m/s? I think the trails would almost always travel to the muzzles, because most of the time you/the ai is going at 30m/s or faster...

As it is now, the beams go through the fighter 80% of the time and 20% of the time they don't. With the 3m ahead of the muzzles (or less), it would be 20% bad and 80% good looking, or am I wrong again?

Just collecting ideas what could be tried...

Posted by IceFire on 10-19-2001 04:45 PM:

The point is that there is little gain in doing what you've suggested. Ideas are welcome and this one has been considered.

Try it if you wish, experiment if you want, but its not worth the trouble as far as I'm concerned.

Posted by Prophet on 10-19-2001 04:47 PM:

Just shoot those damn nials! Then you don't have to look how the amazingly well done beam goes trought it... Just simple as that...

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Posted by White-SF on 10-19-2001 09:22 PM:

And if I were a Minbari sitting in that Nial? Shoot my fellow warrior caste members? Never... I'm no traitor! *lol*

Ok... got all the answers I needed, thanks again! As long as noone has another idea, I'm through with this topic. Simply thought this had to be discussed...

Now looking forward to new Minbari missions.

Posted by magitek on 10-20-2001 04:41 AM:

Actually... fighters CAN have beams. I'll have to look through my mod collection, but I specifically remember one of em having a fighter-bomber (used an existing fs2 fighter) that had a honest-to-goodness beam weapon. It was also possible to edit the beam in the weapons tbl just like you'd edit any capship beam. Maybe this could be done with the nial weapons?

Posted by Drahkas on 10-20-2001 04:48 AM:

thats not a PRIMARY weapon!

you CAN put beams on TURRETS and some bombers have turrets!

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