VWBB - 3rd person games, I h8 them

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Posted by ahmedjbh on 06-06-2002 10:35 PM:

3rd person games, I h8 them

Im sorry, its just annoying me to much now, 3rd person games are such a waste of time. MGS2 was such a waste of a great grx engine all because it was 3rd person. Every third person game has crap control, and its impossible to aim, eg GTA3, if gta3 was first person it would be so much better.

Basically i h8 3rd person games.

Posted by KillMaster on 06-06-2002 11:35 PM:

Obviously, you are a console player, am I wrong?

3rd person shooters are great when they are well done. Half-life, Quake, Deus Ex... Those are NOT a waste of time. Those are revolutions. As for controls, I cannot think of a better thing than a mouse, at least for this kind of game. Fast, intiutive, and EXTREMELY handy. That's for the pc, of course.

So, please try to be less imperative. Instead of "3rd PS are such a waste of time", say "I do not like 3rd PS"

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Posted by Darkblade on 06-07-2002 04:14 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by KillMaster
3rd person shooters are great when they are well done. Half-life, Quake, Deus Ex... Those are NOT a waste of time. Those are revolutions. As for controls, I cannot think of a better thing than a mouse, at least for this kind of game. Fast, intiutive, and EXTREMELY handy. That's for the pc, of course.

So, please try to be less imperative. Instead of "3rd PS are such a waste of time", say "I do not like 3rd PS"

Third Person view is when the camera is located behind the character which you play. (like in Max Payne, Tomb Raider etc.)

First Person is again what you mean. Like in Quake, Deus Ex etc.

I have no trouble against 3rd person games. Tomb Raider was quite good and Max Payne was (and is) excellent. Of course there are few games where camera is stiff and crap, where it just annoys people. On Max Payne, GTA3 etc. I think that they were exceptionally well done as in Spider-Man the movie, crap. Absolutely crap...

[edit] Oh... and I was talking about the situation on PC games. I haven't got much experience on console games but I have heard Max Payne on X-Box has good controls so I believe that 3rd person games are just not for everyone.

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Posted by ahmedjbh on 06-07-2002 06:10 PM:

What i was really trying to say, but my anger clouded, was that for a game involving the need of aiming weapons, 3rd is a waste of time. GTA3 was ruined by the fact you couldnt aim your weapons, if it had a button that would flip you into a first person mode, then wow, thats a great game.

Posted by Inquisitor on 06-07-2002 08:28 PM:

GTA3 has an aim button.

Posted by R128Thunder on 06-07-2002 09:41 PM:

It's also vastly different on the PC when compared to the console version. I found aiming on the PS2 to be a complete ***** but as soon as I got hold of a mouse it was second nature once again and killing things became a simple matter. It all depends on the controls really.

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Posted by IceFire on 06-07-2002 09:56 PM:

JediKnight 2 with the lightsabre in 3rd person is great. I was apposed to the idea until I tried it.

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Posted by Hudzy on 06-07-2002 10:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire
JediKnight 2 with the lightsabre in 3rd person is great. I was apposed to the idea until I tried it.

I was just going to add that. Oh well. That's such a great game. 3rd person isn't so great with the other weapons though.

Posted by Dynamo on 06-07-2002 11:03 PM:

Re: 3rd person games, I h8 them

quote:
Originally posted by ahmedjbh
Im sorry, its just annoying me to much now, 3rd person games are such a waste of time. MGS2 was such a waste of a great grx engine all because it was 3rd person. Every third person game has crap control, and its impossible to aim, eg GTA3, if gta3 was first person it would be so much better.

Basically i h8 3rd person games.

While I don't like 3rd person games much either, the two games you picked as your argument totally do not support it.

If you think MGS2 sucked as a 3rd person game, think about how much more it would've sucked in 1st person mode. It'd be almost impossible to do more than half the stuff you can do in that game in first person, not to mention it looks better that way. I'd rather see a 3rd person view of my character hugging the ground than a first person view at ground level. The controls in MGS2 are vastly improved over MGS1. The only thing that would be difficult to do in 3rd person is aiming a gun and in MGS2 you could use first person view to do it with.

In GTA3 aiming is a bitch, but I blame that more on the unsensitive nature of a gamepad compared to a mouse than on third person views. Look at Max Payne. I had no problem aiming around in that game even though it was third person.

All in all, I think you based almost all of your opinion on playing recent third person shooter games on a console (where, IMO, they don't belong unless you can use a KB/mouse combo on it) and not on any excellent third person games on a PC (like Max Payne and Jedi Knight 2). Because of this, I demand you take back your claim that "Every third person game has crap control, and its impossible to aim" before I smite you with my... um... smiting powers.

Posted by Ace on 06-07-2002 11:17 PM:

Heretic II is where Raven first mastered their 3rd person controls later used in JKII. Honestly it's a masterpiece as the acrobatics are better then Tombraider, the weapons are fun, and Corvus is well... hey it's the guy from Heretic!

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Posted by KillMaster on 06-07-2002 11:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Darkblade

Third Person view is when the camera is located behind the character which you play. (like in Max Payne, Tomb Raider etc.)

First Person is again what you mean. Like in Quake, Deus Ex etc.

AAAAH! I AM STUPID!!! MY MOM SHOULD BE ASHAMED! I CANNOT READ!

Sorry, ahmed, sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry! I just can't read! It's awful! I just lost another good occasion to keep my big mouth closed! I beg your pardon.

Thanks for the correction, Dark

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 06-08-2002 01:23 PM:

Re: Re: 3rd person games, I h8 them

quote:
Originally posted by Dynamo

While I don't like 3rd person games much either, the two games you picked as your argument totally do not support it.

If you think MGS2 sucked as a 3rd person game, think about how much more it would've sucked in 1st person mode. It'd be almost impossible to do more than half the stuff you can do in that game in first person, not to mention it looks better that way. I'd rather see a 3rd person view of my character hugging the ground than a first person view at ground level. The controls in MGS2 are vastly improved over MGS1. The only thing that would be difficult to do in 3rd person is aiming a gun and in MGS2 you could use first person view to do it with.

In GTA3 aiming is a bitch, but I blame that more on the unsensitive nature of a gamepad compared to a mouse than on third person views. Look at Max Payne. I had no problem aiming around in that game even though it was third person.

All in all, I think you based almost all of your opinion on playing recent third person shooter games on a console (where, IMO, they don't belong unless you can use a KB/mouse combo on it) and not on any excellent third person games on a PC (like Max Payne and Jedi Knight 2). Because of this, I demand you take back your claim that "Every third person game has crap control, and its impossible to aim" before I smite you with my... um... smiting powers.

The thing with MGS (1 and 2) is nearly all of the guns auto-aimed. All you had to do was point them in the general direction of the person you wanted to shoot and press the fire button. A perfect example of this is the "comm-tower run" in the original MGS. Equip the Bandana (assuming you have it) and the FA-MAS and start running up the stairs while holding the fire button. You'll hit each guy you met running up the tower at least once. The only exceptions were the PSG-1 and the Stinger and Nikita missile launchers (which locked onto enemy targets automatically anyway) where you were automatically switched to first person mode which was generally appropriate at the time.

I can understand why games such as Oni and Max Payne (which is the main reason behind my reluctance to purchase either of these games on the PS2) would suck with console controls because these games combine aiming with head movement like an FPS does giving you exactly the same troubles with a gamepad as an FPS would have done.

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Posted by F S W on 06-08-2002 02:19 PM:

It depends on the kind of game really. Some 3rd person games are controlled relative to the camera. Say, if you pushed right, your character would walk to the right of the screen. Others have the control system relative to the charater. Push left and your character will turn left.
Also, the camera angles make a huge difference. In Max Payne, the cam was always behind you so you could see where you were shooting.
The genre of the game also has to be taken into account. Platformers are terrible in 1st person.

If you were just talking about 3rd person shooting games where the camera is always above the player, then I would agree with you. If you want to shoot someone and they're off the enge of the screen you don't know where they are even if you're aiming right at them. MGS isn't based entiely around shooting, though.

Posted by Thorn on 06-09-2002 12:24 AM:

Lesse.. Max Payne.. easy to aim.. great game...
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver.... console-ish controls, but it is good...
Deep Space 9: The Fallen.. I found this one pretty good..... and easy to control...

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Posted by Alphakiller on 06-09-2002 02:47 AM:

GTA3. You do realize you can play the game in first person while driving and use a mouse to shoot right?

You hating one of the best games of the year because you can't figure out the control scheme is pretty damn silly, IMO. It takes a little practice, that's all. Also, try some Rampages, you'll learn how to use the guns no problem.

Oh, and an analog stick helps. I play GTA3 with a dualshock 2 (gotta love USB->PS2 adaptors) and use the mouse for the sniper rifle and M16. It works great.

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Posted by Admiral LSD on 06-09-2002 07:11 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Alphakiller
dualshock 2 (gotta love USB->PS2 adaptors)

I've thought about getting one of these on a couple of occasions but for all the trouble I'd had to have gone to it would have been easier to just buy the PlayStation version of the game...

Posted by ahmedjbh on 06-09-2002 09:18 AM:

No alpha killer, your wrong, I do know the controls, and i know that on the ps2 you can not run in first person mode, you can stand still in first person mode and shoot, but thats no good. Normally 3rd person games are so hard to aim, they just stick the EVIL auto aim on (should be banned from every game) so they it just turns into a big waste of time, press the lock- on button, or even just move the cross hairs slightly near an enemy and hold down fire button. Waste of time.

I dont know about the PC version of GTA3, but if you can do everything in first person mode, and run around, then its a way better game than the ps2 version.

Posted by Mr. Fury on 06-09-2002 09:53 AM:

Both first person and third person views can be good choices.
This is exceptionally well done in Jedi Knight 2.

It is game developer's fault if they can't do proper controlling, I don't have GTA3 so I don't know the issue there. Howewer, usually issues like this will be eventually fixed in patches.

But statement of that all third person view games sucks is incorrect. It's like I can say that all strategy or action games sucks, see my point here?

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Posted by ahmedjbh on 06-09-2002 12:27 PM:

Yer , i was wrong to say every 3rd person game is junk, but i was so mad at the bad aiming in gta3, and MGS2, that i went mentally irregular. Apologies.

Posted by Hudzy on 06-09-2002 12:58 PM:

Happens to all of us.

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