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-- Shivans (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=1387)

You mean the Dominion, right?

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"Who's that old sourpuss, Roy?"
Rick Hunter, commenting on
Commander Lisa Hayes, Robotech: Genesis

This siggy inspired by Max Sterling

No...the wormhole aliens. The Bajoran prophets.

You wouldn't have one big sub-space node, however the multitude of nodes created would more than likely have destination points a great distance away due to the new amounts of mass in the post-Capella stellar object.

Also, the Shivans themselves may be sensitive to various forms of ionized fields such as nebulas and sub-space, or once again it might be only their technology that is sensitive to it.

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Ace
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Ace when saying sensitive means = attuned rather than vulnerable.

Right Ace

They have no weakness to subspace or the like. They are sensitive to its presence.

In relation to the thing about shivans being made.They could be a race that has evoled in space and never set foot on a planet.They could have started as insect like creatures on a comet at the very start of the universe.In the tech room is says the mabye the shivans were born from the flux of subspace.

Yeah...its quite possible that they were born in subspace. That would be very interesting.

Born in space? Somehow I find that unlikely.

I believe that a species born in space would NOT have a form that would create space craft of those seen in the game. The style is terrestrial

Craft such as those show the mark of a terretrial intelligence/race. Only a species that evolved planet-side would create craft of that kind and design - one which requires appendages to manipulate controls. Another thing is that the Shivans wore armored suits or are armored themselves like a carapace.

It is highly unlikely that a species born in a nebula would create such things. Why? those creatures born in nebulae would probably not have a solid physical form with appendages with which to manipulate things - like hands. Life in a nebulae would lead to the birth of a creature without such appendages and would proly have evolved fins and some sort of propulsion system in their bodies. Point in case - Darwin's theory of evolution.

Another thing is the lack of raw materials present in nebulae though it can be debated that they evolved in a nebulae which was filled with asteroids or rich with deposits.

The Shivans have shown that they may have lived in space a long while tho - referring to the design of their ships and the ease with which they move around, and fight, in zero-G. The irregular design of their ships also show that they have adapted to space for quite a while now.

mmmmm intresting........

Its a vidieo game !

But i have my own theory about the Ancients Dissaperance.

When the Shivans got to powerfull they built a jump gate to another Gallixy one that the shivans couldent detect (Stealth).
so there still alive But far away.

I think that makes freespace alot more intresting coz now we can use Bobbous Wicked Mods

A likey scenrio is that perhaps they were a experiment on a ship in subspace that went wrong or right for that matter.That supports the subspace theory and also that they were made.Although i would prefer to think of them being born in subspace naturally.Why do we assume they value or use common resources to survive.I like the idea of them using nebulea to reside in.As their fusion properties supports this.Also does any1 have any ideas where and how shivan ships are built?

It states quite clearly that the ancients were eradicated when the Shivans bombarded their planet. The destruction was total.

There is a small chance that a few escaped...but the Shivans are likely more capable in subspace signature detection than the ancients were at masking it, so its very unlikely that they were able to mask the presence of a jump node without the Shivans prior knowledge.

Also something i forgot to metion is Shivan craft are not terristrial at all.Most dont employ any sort of winged stucture.
The Tanranis was captured but the shivans knew of it.Is it possible the Shivans on board used a Hive mind structure to commuicate where they were(like the borg-sorry to compare it to them).

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See the Shivan Kill the Shivan

Does it matter if the Shivans aren't terrestrial? That would never have stopped them using planets for resources, as far as I know.

By the way, regarding the Capella star, if the jump node IS permanent, then maybe the node was only in full effect once the supernova had occured, which would wipe all of their juggernauts. In that case, the warp-out may have been an attempt to save as many ships as possible (if you don't need to destroy them, why bother? It takes resources and time to build these things).

The juggernauts couldn't have done an in-system jump, because a supernova is system-wide anyway. That wouldn't save them. So they would jump to another system - which would require six or so juggernauts to hold the node open before full supernova.

In other words, the full fleet (or just about that) was required to initiate the explosion, but only six to open up a node for a short time. Hopefully the node wasn't running to Sol.

Dammit!

I'm gone for two weeks, and all of a sudden the serious debating happens!

What did you mean by Snipes and Bobbaou have something with?

You never finished the sentence...

Sirius, it states it in the tech room that the Shivans are not terrestrial. The only time they have even acknowledged planets is when in relation to a homeworld...and perhaps a major population center.

They get their resources from somewhere else.

The Shivans only concern with planetary bodies are the sub-space signatures around them.

Now since the alliance uses various sub-space relays for inter-system communication, then one could expect the Shivans following them as well as shipping lanes to their source destination; planets.

The Shivans do not make any attempts of gathering planetary resources, they simply bombard and annihilate planets such as with Vasuda Prime and the world in Deneb which we see in the FS2 intro cutscene.

Also, the alliance's use of relays is tied into why there is no communication with Sol.

The inter-system relays require a functioning node, which is now defunct.

Yes, someone could build a radio relay in Alpha Centauri and transmit to Sol. However due to the distances, time, as well as signal degration from the previously mentioned as well as from planetary and solar bodies, such a method would prove futile. Also, someone would have to be listening.

I'm quite certain there is a large GTVA array within Alpha Centauri, which has been attempting to contact Earth for well over 30 years and has since become a research facility for alternitive FTL and communication technologies.

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Ace
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[This message has been edited by Ace (edited 02-25-2001).]

Zeronet wrote:
Also something i forgot to metion is Shivan craft are not terristrial at all.Most dont employ any sort of winged stucture.

I wasnt referring wing structure. I was referring to design. I'd think that if the Shivans were non-terrestrial, their ships would be a lot more different... I dont know how to describe it at this time so I'm going to drop this one for the time being.

The other reason I think that Shivans have terrestrial origins - or at least evolved from a place where there are places to walk or climb on, is the design of their suits. They are designed to grab things, walk and run. I do acknowledge the fact that they are wearing suits.

I think that for a species that evolved in a nebulae, for example, would have adapted to 360 degree movement and 3D perception much like fishes. They would also not "downgrade" themselves to walking on a 2D plane like humans and Vasudans do.

I acknowledge that they have spent a lot of time in space as evidenced by their ship design and the fact that they are known to free-fall through space and grab onto the hulls of enemy fighters to do nasty things.

Zeronet's creation scenario is possible and I cant find much to argue on that one. As for valuing common resources, I think they do, but are not greedy. It would take forever to harvest material from even the denses nebulaes to get enough material to build space-ships. Fuel is no problem though.

I think that they have a large stockpile of resources, weapons, ships etc etc.

In support of the theory that the Sathanas are science vessels or the like - I think this ones IceFire's, it could be that they have some large ships with the capability to produce ships.

The Tanranis was captured but the shivans knew of it.Is it possible the Shivans on board used a Hive mind structure to commuicate where they were(like the borg-sorry to compare it to them).

Since I do not support the hive-mind thingie I'm going to argue that the Shivans are a very disciplined force with very good logistics and communication.

They probably have ways to track their own ships and even communicate in a way that we do not know about.


Snipes wrote:
Dammit!
I'm gone for two weeks, and all of a sudden the serious debating happens!

What did you mean by Snipes and Bobbaou have something with?

welcome back, and what did you mean?

IceFire wrote:
it states it in the tech room that the Shivans are not terrestrial

By Crud! How did I miss that. But there is no solid supporting evidence so let's all make this up as we go along.

Ace wrote:
Now since the alliance uses various sub-space relays for inter-system communication, then one could expect the Shivans following them as well as shipping lanes to their source destination; planets.

Hehehe, sounds like Star Control 2 where the Druuge used the hypercaster to bring the Khor-Ar to the Gg.

Now that really supports the Vasudan "great destroyer" thingie. Sounds like the FS designer has played Star Control 2.

The Shivans haven't acknowledged the existence of planets in other cases THAT WE KNOW OF.

To a strictly logical perspective, planets are like very large, rounded asteroids with an atmosphere. The solid ones would have a small atmosphere and large solid part. Liquid planets would have a smaller one (it'd still be there because of the pressure of gravity). Gas planets, an even smaller one.

Now, maybe this atmosphere would hinder the Shivans' collecting of materials, but their technology suggests such problems would probably not pose a real problem. Neither would the size.

That said, do the Shivans even collect minerals from smaller bodies, like asteroids and comets? We probably don't know - unless such was revealed in FS:TGW or Silent Threat, both of which I haven't played but have heard a fair amount of, neither Terrans nor Vasudans have ever seen the Shivans building a ship. I don't know whether or not the Ancients have, either, let alone whether they left records of such.

We do know, however, that the Shivans employ gas miners in nebulae. However, it is likely that this is to power their ships - but it may serve other purposes as well.

The only other alternatives are first, that the Shivans gain the solid materials they need for their ships from the craft of other species, and second, that they are simply given the required components to build their vessels from someone/something else.

Obviously, since it is impossible to obtain the resources to build ships out of nowhere, the Shivans have to get their minerals from one of these places, or something fairly similar.

Yeah, their source of materials is clearly elusive. There is no evidence to back that up one way or another.

These are all reasons why its quite probable that they were engineered rather than born of evolution. It is possible that they were once a terrestrial species and they were engineered from a basic form to the form they are now.

My hypothesis with the Taranis was more of the Shivans unique ability to track ships through subspace. I'm not sure if I should imply hive mind or not, but they knew that the Taranis moved from Ikeya to Ribos and they knew where in Ribos the ship was (the connection between the ship being towed to Tombaugh and then the station being destroyed is just too close).

Don't underestimate the Shivans. Though I don't like the term "Hive mind", it is the most probable scenario...

While I was away I did some thinking about this (yes, I have no life, but so what ) and I came up with very little. Shivans are a species shrouded in mystery. Worse yet, they are powerful.

It was said that to beat your enemy, you must know your enemy. If this is so, there is no hope for us to beat the Shivans.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zeronet:
Also something i forgot to metion is Shivan craft are not terristrial at all.Most dont employ any sort of winged stucture.
The Tanranis was captured but the shivans knew of it.Is it possible the Shivans on board used a Hive mind structure to commuicate where they were(like the borg-sorry to compare it to them).

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