VWBB (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/index.php)
- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- Debate: Earth's Technological Edge after Endgame (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=2157)

Beans...

btw we need someone full time employed to answer all the posts we have these days...there's a limilt to how much my poor eyes can take reading endless amount of text........i just cant keep up

Matthew, you stand alone if you think that Earth would actually win, cuz nobody here said that. Ice and the others say that they are even, and that's not true. I'm not a "fanatic" when it comes to discussions, I'm not arrogant, I'm not aggressive, I just know when I am right and when I'm not, otherwise I don't open my mouth.

Killmenow, I have to repeat myself, you're getting far too theoretical about the human Rangers, that's not what we are talking about here.

Kuba

hey this whole discusion is theoretical - ehll we're discussing this like its real - but i still think it would be a fair fight at earth current tech level but being realistic earth would slaughter the mimbari if it came down to a fight to the end simply because humans made the show and we dont tend to makes shows where we get exterminated

I hope that's a joke.

Kuba

I'll try to be quite calm.

You saw how overwhelmingly powerful the Minbari were in ItB, right? Do you honestly believe that the newer Omega and Warlock ships are THAT much more advanced? I admit that a Warlock is an extremely powerful opponent, and I'd rate it as a winner against any other younger race ship, but against the Sharlin? No chance, if you put them head-on from a distance. A surprise attack, and the Warlock may well win. It has excellent few-hit-kill firepower, with those large beams, but I doubt it could take many hits from the Sharlin's main cannons.

And there's STILL only a handful of Warlocks around.

A Sharlin against an Omega: this is no contest. The Omega is SO dead it hurts to think about it

I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaack from my sleep I see controversy has not died...about mungrel's post... I never said the minbaris were invencible, what I said was the human ships weapons are inefective (maybe except for warlocks and Victory). And what I mean by inefectiveness?
I don´t mean that they will not scratch the skin of mimbari ships but rather that human weapons will not be able disable the sharlin before this one shoots back and therefore
causing crippling damage or fatal damage (most likely).And I never, never changed my mind about this.
Almost all other ships are common to those of the first war (well omega is still not MUCH better than NOVA).
About mathew's post My nick is HADERAK that is H.A.D.E.R.A.K .My real name is very dificult to pronounce by other languages (see I'm Portuguese). I never was fanatic about anything in my entire life, I find fanatism abominating, in fact if anyone is fanatic around here its not me for sure. I would say that fanatics are those who refuse to listening to reazon, so far I have presente tecnical stuff, some may think "geez lets not get tecnical now" but being tecnical is precisely what we want so we can see what each craft is capable of in relation to the other, thats exactely what is intended in this debate. Whatever whitestar is flown by humans or not is Irrelevant (If you wanna go this way then I ask: what stops the minbari from kickin the humans ou of the pilots seat and replace him by a minbari?)
If you can show me other tecnical facts Of B5 universe then tell me I'll admit I'm wrong if they contradict what I posted before.
I want to feel fear when facing the minbari, not facing them like I would face any other race like the narn

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew:
This was quite a fun post originally though it now seems to be mired in fanticism which I dislike.
When I first read the post I thought it would be a close contest but the Minbari would win but after reading everyones posts I agree with Ice that Earth would win. What changed my mind was kabu and whatsname fanatical defense of their postion on the topic and their aggressiveness against anyone speaking against their postion which I find especially annoying.

---

Facts have two properties: they are always true, but they can be bent to uphold one side of a controversy.

[This message has been edited by Jabu (edited 03-09-2001).]

you Kuba man That one was strong LOL
Lets not take it personal ok guys?
Remember The MOD! THE MOD!! thats what matters!
lets make it feel real in the game OK?
Ah by the way you Ultra-radicals-Pro-earth-patriots (LOL ) take a look at B5 tech site and give a look to the each races weapons and energy Output youll find some intersting stuff...( so many zeros in mimbari values...)

Okay: take Turbo Pascal. Put in line
WOutput := RANDOM(10000000);

And voilá! You have the numbers for all stuff in B5Tech!

i got to admit i think you are prone to stating facts yourself that have no basis - yes the mimbari fleet is quite big but there is similar evidence that the Earth alliance fleet is also extremely large since in the time from sheridans declaration of war against pressident clark clark managed to manufacture (not sure of the exact numbers but i believe there was over 10 at least) omega x's and they were experimanetal tech imagine how quickly they could churn out normal omegas but as discussed the omega is no match for a sharlin by itself - however this debate was originally about the technological gap between the mimbari and the earth aliance so lets get down to the basics - sharlin vs warlock thats what its all about - i think to answer that question there is some information we need first off the range of the weapons on both the mimbari ships and the aerth alliances lastest weapons and to be honest the only person who i will accept figures from on this is JMS and his techniccal advisors for creating the show itself now once we had that information then the relative strengths of there hulls and finally the battle conditions - who surprised who or was it a simple both sen each other close and shoot deal also which ship carrys the larger number of fighters while i know the nial is greatly superior to the thunderbolt with sensors that can track them number would tell if the warlock carrier between 50-100% more fighters - you might all think why not the power of the beam cannons well i think the warlocks main guns considering there are two of them and they would be capable of anialating the eastern seaboard with just one i'm goign to say a sharlin is going to be toast but i acknolwege that the mimbari main guns could do exactly the same to the warlock - soooo who knows JMS well enough to call him up and ask?

one other thing - purely on technology no ships involved what so ever - the earth alliance has been studying the shadows for years well a while anyway they also have access to the vorlon tech given to the mimbari and mimbari tech itself combined with what we have worked out ourself - now all and i repeat ALL evidence suggests the mimbari dont advance as quickly as humans and dont say the centauri sold us jump gate tech - it was probally only lorian mayb ethe shadows and vorlons who acaully invented the gates themselfs - so i think its fair to say the tech gap is all but closed and i think earth tech will be superior to that or mimbari soon based basically on the fact that in 1000 years they barely advanced - they made there ships abit bigger but there fighter didn't change at all - 1000 years ago the human race was still running around with swords so at the creation of the isa i think earth forces tech looks set improve rapidly

Anyway, who says that ONE Warlock cannon could annihilate the eastern coast of the USA? If I remember correctly, there were a LOT of those things in Endgame, and I'd say at least 5 or so of them were in range of the area in question. I think they just said that the neutron beams could annihilate the entire east coast before they could shut them down, not that just ONE of them could.

And as for the Minbari fighters used 1000 years ago, I'd say the effects people were just lazy. The Minbari were probably on the verge of discovering bio-armour themselves, even without Vorlon help. I'd say that would give them a bit of an edge.

And quite frankly, they haven't needed to advance their tech. They were far superior to any younger race, and as shown in ItB, the Minbari leaders were sceptical, to say the least, in regards of the next Shadow war.

Reply to KILLMENOW:
Your points are valid ,I would look forward if someone inside the making of the show released the specs. that way there would not be so much controversy. I admit that Minbaris evolition is slower than human's, if you look at 20th century human history there is an similar analogy i.e. in WWI fighter planes were considered obsolete 1 or 2 years after they entered in service, now it takes an average of 20 years for the current jets.Thats why humans in B5 evolve faster than minbaris these last take longer because tecnological barriers are more difficult obstacles.Humans have a lot more room for improvement.But now I want to ask you one thing: If WWI scientists captured an F-22 raptor do you think they could understand and replicate everythin in it? could they make a plane capable of shooting down a F-22? perhaps they could make a rudimentary jet engine but what about electronics? No way even if they could understand it they were never able to duplicate the kind of weapons system on the F-22 due to the lack of high precision manufacturing machinery, the F-22 copy would be no more than a rocket plane with machine guns, no missiles no sensors no targeting computer...now take this analogy to the B5 Universe: Its a fact that warlock and spetialy the victory were never a complete weapons systems, they always laked something just like the copied rocket plane even thoght they could in theory destroy their more modern couterparts. The victory class im my opinion could destroy a sharlin with a single shot but a hit from the sharlin would also be devastating due to the lak of advanced armour.More dont forget that the victory suffers temporary systems shutdown when its main gun fires.

To Haderak
the Victory class Destroyer uses Minbari armor aka it can absorb 80% of the beams damage
it also has 8 quantum discharge cannons
12 fusion beam cannons
etc etc wont mention the rest of the weapons..

the Victory Destroyer would win almost every time against a Sharlin...

these URl's arent 100% correct but they are dam close
[url="http://www.tp2b.de/isa_victory.html"]http://www.tp2b.de/isa_victory.html[/url] [url="http://www.tp2b.de/minbari_cruiser.html"]http://www.tp2b.de/minbari_cruiser.html[/url]

------------------
Nova Dreadnog

Exact armament for the Nova is open to debate, as the ship can be retrofitted with different armament depending upon the vessel's given mission

thats 44 Fusion beam cannons

Oooooops forgot that G2 but then again wasn´t it suposed to have a vorlon armour?
I dont know either if the mimbari weapons are o are not efective agains their own armor, this time maybe well never know for sure...

Pretty effective as a Sharlin completly cut off the back fin of the renegade sharlin Trigati.

Wow, this is pretty hot. Just remember to keep it civil

Look this may shut you up!
THE VORLONS.........duh!
Like if they came back and they were F*!*%N
Pissed everyone would be dead!
Now shut the hell up before i blow your F*^&%N Heads off...or throw you in a pit with landmines at the bottom....whatever comes first

------------------
People think I should belong in a mental institution well they are right!

yeah the Victory should have had Vorlon armor but some nasty plaugue just struck earth and that armor wasent that important anymore

I cant remember what episode it was... they spoke about the main guns "Gun" on the victory that their guns where of Vorlon origin thats why the energy drain when firing the mean "main" gun shut down the ship

------------------
Nova Dreadnog

Exact armament for the Nova is open to debate, as the ship can be retrofitted with different armament depending upon the vessel's given mission

thats 44 Fusion beam cannons