VWBB (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/index.php)
- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- Debate: Earth's Technological Edge after Endgame (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=2157)

You see a warlock firing some missiles and you see a warlock underneath the Excalibur as they are leaving to deathcloud.Actually the EA did quite well to mobilize a strong enough force to stop the Drahk in such a short time period..

I'd say even the Drakh beams weren't a match for the Sharlin's fusion beams.
And 1 on 1, the Warlock loses almost every time against a Sharlin, simply because it's so primitive compared to the fishy

Also, there's STILL only a handful of Warlocks in existence, against the Minbari's hundreds of Sharlins. The Omegas are a formidable enemy, but not quite enough.

IMHO Drakh beams are better than Minbari ones. They have technology, but can they use it? Almost same situation than it is for Narns, they have access for ISA technology but they can't use it all as quicly as they hope.

quote:
Originally posted by mungrel:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by haderak:
[B]the beam guns on almost all earth ships except maybe the warlock an defenetly the victory clsass ships, are not focused or coherent enough to do significant damage./B]
This is a joke right ?
Too much minbari war syndrome here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mo its not a Joke!
Ok lets clarify this once for all, analyzing Wat WE KNOW:
1-In the first Earth mimbari war The earth forces were more than overmatched by the mimbari fleet in every front.
2-The mimbari use sharlins im great numbers almost all their offensives were driven by sharlins (their most powerfull ship) so you can see their not Ill resourced like someone commented earlier
3-Humans didn´t have enough novas to match the numerous sharlins, on top of that they were far inferior.
4-there were only a handfull of new additions:Omegas replaced Novas but still not good enough,about 70%(of old fighters replaced by new ones) a handfull of Warlocks and ONE victory class ship.All omegas-X never flown again by the time President Clark fell.
5-The minbari now have the witestar in service.
6-Minbari fleet is much balanced than its human counterpart, their most powerful ships is used for all purposes while the majority of human ships would be little more than obstacles.
7-in a hipothetical scenario of a 2nd war the minbari would probably try to destroy the relatively small portion of earth advanced ships, these would find themselves overstreched as waves of minbari sharlins hunted them down.After their destrution the tide of the war was all for the minbari.From this moment on Casulaties would be uneven in favor to the minbari.
8-the drakh are not as powerfull as the minbari im my opinion, almost all their offensives ended up with their asses kicked.their ships do not show the same firepower as minbari did.
they are mere lacays of the shadows.

Its not with mere patriotism that will win a war. It seems there is people here that grow overconfident too easely.
I do not wish to brag myself but in 12 years of gaming experience I have in simulators or RTS I usualy beat those human adversaries that thought just because they had a handfull of the better unit modeled in the game they would not loose against an enemy with a more balanced and rubust army. sorry!

just curious how do you knwo it loose nearly every time? you ahppen to have a sharlin and a warlock in orbit? i think not. i'm on the opinion that it wasn't our weapons that lost us the mimbari war - it was our sensors they let us down - ok the wepaons are no match for a sharlins but when dealing with ships not of the shadow and vorlon veriety those beams are overkill - i'll admit that the omega could use abit more firepower but the warlock has two of the beam cannons that were on the earths defence grid and they were said to be able to destroy the entire eastern seaboard - now i believe someone acaully worked out exactly how powerful that beam would need to be to do that and believe me it was more than enough to rip a sharlin to pieces

ALL WE NEED IS NOVA...
tum ti tum di tum

Ill still beat we kicked those blue fishies with some Nova Dreadnog's....

just as 30 Fenris takes down a Sathana

Besides I know the Sharlins weakness.... honeypoofs

------------------
you wont be smiling when my Grendel missile frigate fires all 8 missile banks at your scrumpy fighter

There seems to be an assumption that the Minbari have a vast number of ships. Their power base suggests that they do not have a large number of ships. They have a small population and although they have many resources and quite a bit of territory, they are less militaristic than Earth.

Since the Earth Minbari war, Earth now has a formidable defense grid, particle beams, increasingly powerful pulse cannons, gravity stabilizers, and so on.

The Minbari are powerful yes, but they don't have a massive fleet and Earth has advanced very quickly.

Also, Whitestars are ISA ships, not Minbari ships. There is a distinction, of course, were arguing nothing since the ISA wouldn't stand for the Minbari and Earth fighting again.

haderak is right in everything he says. Plus Sharlins have virtually no recharging delay for their guns and they have 6, I repeat 6 Neutron cannons, which, as we have witnessed, have even been effective against Battlecrabs when combined. And there are still a lotta more secondary weapons on it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by KillMeNow:
i'm on the opinion that it wasn't our weapons that lost us the mimbari war - it was our sensors they let us down

---

since the humans seems to make major advancments every 10th year in the Bab5 universe....

and the Minbari in about 100 years...

the humans are developing more and faster than the Minbari so NOVA NOVA you get the point

And also there where some of the shadows vessels where found on Mars... nothing says there might still be some ships buried and just wanting to get dugged out 8)...

NOVA NOVA NOVA...

maby time to change my sig

------------------
you wont be smiling when my Grendel missile frigate fires all 8 missile banks at your scrumpy fighter

this is a reply to Haderak...

8-the drakh are not as powerfull as the minbari im my opinion, almost all their offensives ended up with their asses kicked.their ships do not show the same firepower as minbari did.
they are mere lacays of the shadows.


In that case the Minbaris are just mere laceys to the Vorlons since the whitestars uses Vorlon armor

and when the Drahk got their asses kicked by the Victory class destroyers they used Vorlon beam weapons... end of story argument history... left standing are the NOVAS... heck changing sig now

------------------
you wont be smiling when my Grendel missile frigate fires all 8 missile banks at your scrumpy fighter

quote:

---

Originally posted by IceFire:
There seems to be an assumption that the Minbari have a vast number of ships. Their power base suggests that they do not have a large number of ships. They have a small population and although they have many resources and quite a bit of territory, they are less militaristic than Earth.

Since the Earth Minbari war, Earth now has a formidable defense grid, particle beams, increasingly powerful pulse cannons, gravity stabilizers, and so on.

Also, Whitestars are ISA ships, not Minbari ships. There is a distinction, of course, were arguing nothing since the ISA wouldn't stand for the Minbari and Earth fighting again.

---

as i recall the white stars are piloted by mainly humans - delen acaully said most are human - they come to fight etc etc etc so it would see the white star fleet is in the earth corner - and although they dedicate 1/3 of there population to war how offen to they acaully fight wars - it would seem the earth mimbari war was the first they had fought in about a thosand years except chasing down afew of those ships that captures sheridan that time - earth on the other hand one of the first thing they did when entering the galatic comminity was kick the dilgars ass - they have been expanding agresively offering on occasion to help in local wars for permission to place new out posts in the systems and those resources are well used as evidenced by the quick recovery of the earth alliance from the earth mimbari war - no while i'm i think you favour the mimbari to much you might accuse me of the opposite but to make my postion clear - i dont know who would win - the mimbari do still have a technological edge over the earth alliance but its rapidly getting smaller. so i feel which ever way it did go it woudl be a brutal and devestating war for both sides concerned who would win might come down to luck in the end

Ummmn... Both sides would propably be so demoralized, and drained out at the end that somene (like Centauri) would have good change to expand little
Anyway, all this would have quite destructive effect when you think about diblomatic relations...

quote:

---

Originally posted by KillMeNow:
i dont know who would win - the mimbari do still have a technological edge over the earth alliance but its rapidly getting smaller. so i feel which ever way it did go it woudl be a brutal and devestating war for both sides concerned who would win might come down to luck in the end

---

You still haven't eplained why you think that the EA's weopons are not powerfull enough to do damage to a sharlin haderak.
All the younger races ships can do major damage to each other.

"Its not with mere patriotism that will win a war" - wanna bet on this. I assume youv'e heard of the conflict in Vietnam.


I agree with icefire.There is simply no proof the minbari fleet is as big as some think.

I don't see what 12 years of gaming has to do with this debate though.

One thing that stands out was the fact that it took the Minbari with all their firepower and knowledge 3 Years to take the fight right on Earths doorstep. As Londo said"they never ran out of courage.. they just ran out of time".
If the war happens again it would most probably take too much time to complete and both sides would call it quits and peace would reign..
ps I saw somewhere about the war if it were any other younger race the Minbari would've clean them up in under a year..

I know that 1/3rd of Minbari population are builders and 1/3rd are warriors, but that doesn't mean that all their builders are making spacecraft nor does it mean that there are alot of them.

1/3rd is simply a fraction, and we don't have a total population but I'm willing to bet there are more humans than Minbari. Especially since they keep saying that each generation has fewer and fewer children and they seem diminished on the whole.

quote:

---

Originally posted by IceFire:
each generation has fewer and fewer children

---

hey sheridans the president and i'm sure in the pre nupiuals hes got a claims on those whitestars - i think thats why he married her - it was clearly the ship he was in love with

lol
yeah! The ships are realy cute!