VWBB - Do you think the Lucifer's shields...

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- FreeSpace 1/2 Discussion (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=33)
-- Do you think the Lucifer's shields... (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=7990)

Posted by karajorma on 02-15-2003 09:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Holywhippet
It just seems odd that the Shivans didn't show up again until Bosch reactivated the Knossos device. For that matter, was the Knossos creating an artificial jump node or was it stablising an existing one?

Well there are several possibilities.

1) The shivans from FS1 didn`t jump in but were mearly lying dormant like you suggested earlier. If that's the case the two fleets probably didn`t communicate

2) The knossos was in standby mode and until reactivated nothing could pass through the node.

3) The shivans for some reason didn`t care about the GTVA after the destruction of the lucifer until the gate was reactivated and they found GTVA ships in their own space

As for the gate the command briefing says that they believe that the knossos is stablising an existing node.

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Posted by Bigbossman on 02-16-2003 06:38 AM:

quote:
What if the hive mind turned out to be soem black dude. "Yo what's up homie G. Prepare to be assimilated yo."

Hmm, very sterotypical, but whatever.

anyways all this talk about possible endings make me really wistful about there not being a sequel in the works. I would think that with an ending as ambiguous as that, they were planning on a sequel. I dunno. i just dont know... oh and to go back to what I was actually trying to say....

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Posted by ns33 on 02-16-2003 02:42 PM:

Well if you remember the Ancient recollections, it specifically stated that when they entered subspace, the Destroyers found them. Coincidentally, when Terrans and Vasudans discovered the amazing technology that allows subspace travel, the Shivans came after them too. I guess that IMO this is not enough evidence to prove that the Shivans attacked the Ancients and went into hiding until someone else showed up, but it indeed is an intresting thing to think about.

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Posted by karajorma on 02-16-2003 02:47 PM:

Bigbossman, be careful asking about FS3. It can get you rather badly burnt

I covered the reasons why FS3 wasn`t made in my FAQ (in fact it was the first question I answered cause EVERYONE wanted to know the answer at one time or another )

Posted by Phoenix03 on 02-17-2003 02:48 AM:

We should test it out blow a star up in the game and put a Lucifer roaming around and record its readings of % Damage taken :P

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Posted by Tar-Palantir on 02-17-2003 06:36 PM:

Unfortunately the supernova effect mearily blows up (at the veru least) your fighter and does no damage to any capships in the area. Therefore the Lucy would take on damage.

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Posted by Zolee on 02-17-2003 07:15 PM:

IMHO we're always taking shivans a little lightly.
Personaly I believe them to be fundamentally different than our standards.
However I'd like to suggest a reason as of why they do attack any spacefaring race - I have a tehory about subspace, but since I've already explained that in another thread (subspace) I'm gona stick with the basics:

-Subspace is paralel with our universe, it even exists in the same space. It's another dimension, but it needs gravity to be "stretched out". Solar systems have gravity as well as planets *ever wondered why jumpnodes would be so close to planets?

-Energy inside subspace accumulates, and whenever someone eneters it they pollute it with even more - the energy forms rings inside subspace tunnels - you don't use a tunnel during and intrasystem jump, only during an intersystemjump. (Inside a solar system the subspace is actually spherical -but it's also so fluid that travelling is almost instanteous). These rings stabilise the tunnel, but their balance is frail one - exess energy can lead to storms - which may last anywhere between a microsecond and a milenia.

Now, Shivans seem to be living in space - or they spend most of their time inside it, their only mean of travel is subspace (I think even in Capella they just used the stars energy to create an artifical node, the supernova was a sideeffect).

A new race starts to use subspace - polluting it, making it harder for Shivans to travel. It is unknown how far the effects can go, since the systems are connected by tunnels - so even remote tunnels could collapse.

The very life of the race is threatened since they relly on subspace to the utmost. Another subspace faring race is not just another traveler - they are another pyromanian inside a gunpowder barrel.

Maybe shivans limit the use of subspace - and destroy those who would endanger their priviledge to any extent.

<off topic comment>
The techroom suggests they even evolved in space ,Even with extreme mutagene interference it would take a couple of mileniums at least. This is my main reason why shivans have to be fundamentaly different, that much time in space is out to change one view of life.

Posted by karajorma on 02-17-2003 08:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zolee
The techroom suggests they even evolved in space ,Even with extreme mutagene interference it would take a couple of mileniums at least. This is my main reason why shivans have to be fundamentaly different, that much time in space is out to change one view of life.

Yeah but there is as much science in that statement as there is in the Capella system only having one star.

It's obvious from any observation of the shivans muscles that this isn`t a species that evolved under weightless conditions.

Posted by ns33 on 02-17-2003 11:22 PM:

We can speculate that GTI had obtained "live/dead" Shivan specimen after the Great War. The research and scientific data were not released, and are still classified. After the GTI and the Hades incident, much of what GTI accomplished or was doing before the incident (and even before the arrival of the Shivans) were classified.

Posted by GalacticEmperor on 02-18-2003 08:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ns33
We can speculate that GTI had obtained "live/dead" Shivan specimen after the Great War. The research and scientific data were not released, and are still classified. After the GTI and the Hades incident, much of what GTI accomplished or was doing before the incident (and even before the arrival of the Shivans) were classified.

...and destroyed on board the Jotunheim and Hades. You'll find out soon enough where most of the data was recovered from...

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Posted by ns33 on 02-19-2003 10:25 PM:

We know that the Lucy and its fleet first appeared in Ross 128, and we speculate that the GTSC Einstein was there also. However, GTA also met its first Shivan resistance in the systems of Ribos, Ikea, and those outer systems. Intel and past references rarely talk about these systems. We KNOW that these were the Shivan's first occupied systems (they set up cargo depots, repair shops, etc.). But why all the hush-hush about the happenings of Betelgeuse and around theres?

Posted by GalacticEmperor on 02-20-2003 05:09 PM:

Betelgeuse and Beta Cygni are at a jump node dead-end. Not much to be gained from there, so there were probably not that many battles. We don't even know if the Shivans were interested.

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Posted by ns33 on 02-21-2003 01:56 AM:

But so was Capella (or so we had thought). After the Great War, we discovered Gamma Draconis, and from there, the return of the Shivan fleet. Ikea was the place for major Shivan presence (well, it may not have been Ikea, but it was a system close to the "core", but a dead-end system). The prospect that Ikea was a dead-end to OUR knowledge leads to the theory that the Shivans entered through an unknown jump node to us both then and now.

Posted by Zolee on 02-24-2003 11:12 PM:

Possessing weight doesn't need gravity.

It's obvious that Shivans should have undergone serious conditions to develop their strengh, but if you examine the "design" it's more adepteds to a 3D environment, than a planet.
Being in space doesn't mean constant weightlessness.

You accelerate and as a result you have force which generates weight. Imagine a race that experiences all kind of stresses in all directions. - So in other words you gota get used to a lot of different weights in differents directions.

They could live in space colonies which spin to generate gravity - even that kind of gravity is different than a planet's and needs a constant knowledge of direction.

Or they could have artificial gravity - which would be more pleasant, but it may still not be enough to counter all the forces experienced during a long-term space voyage - one lasting milenias will definitly have an effect.

Posted by karajorma on 02-24-2003 11:42 PM:

You're missing one major point Zolee. If they did evolve in space who built the spinning stations to give them weight?

Posted by ns33 on 02-25-2003 02:05 AM:

"Spinning stations"?? Am I missing something??

Posted by Zolee on 02-25-2003 10:38 PM:

I didn't say they were born in space - only that they've evolved there.
Evolution just doesn't stop because people like to think of a race as a constant thing.

It's just a matter of time...

Posted by karajorma on 02-25-2003 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Zolee
I didn't say they were born in space - only that they've evolved there.
Evolution just doesn't stop because people like to think of a race as a constant thing.

It's just a matter of time...

Aha. I see your point now. I thought you were talking about the shivans having achieved sentience in space or something like that.

I don`t believe that happened for a second of course.

As for them evolving further in space, I still don`t buy it. Once a sentient creature figures out genetic engineering natural selection pretty much goes out of the window as it is far quicker to engineer whatever adaptations you want.

If you say that the shivans design is the result of them tinkering with their own DNA (or equivalent) then I`ll agree with you that it's a good chance but I doubt any kind of natural selection got them there since it would take far too long and however the shivans do evolve choices made due to sentience would probably have a larger effect.

Posted by ns33 on 02-26-2003 02:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by karajorma

If you say that the shivans design is the result of them tinkering with their own DNA (or equivalent)

I note that you said "or equivalent". DNA only applies to carbon-based life-forms, or as far as we know. As far as DNA on a Shivan, I'm pretty skeptical, but you gotta be able to understand what the "equivalent" is to be able to say they can tinker (nice word choice

) with their own... makeup material.

Hell, I would love to have my DNA altered so I can have a plasma beam or whatever mounted on my head.

Posted by karajorma on 02-26-2003 10:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ns33

I note that you said "or equivalent". DNA only applies to carbon-based life-forms, or as far as we know. As far as DNA on a Shivan, I'm pretty skeptical, but you gotta be able to understand what the "equivalent" is to be able to say they can tinker (nice word choice ) with their own... makeup material.

Hell, I would love to have my DNA altered so I can have a plasma beam or whatever mounted on my head.

I said equivalent cause it's highly unlikely that the shivans have DNA since there are other replicating molecules that they could have evolved to use instead and the chance of them evolving exactly the same one as us (especially if you consider the chance of them having the same nucleotides as us).
However it is possible. No one has yet proved exactly where the first replicating molecules came from (although there are lots of theories) and it is possible that the shivans (or another race) seeded planets with DNA billions of years ago.
The Shivans almost certainly will have some sort of genetic material that is alterable because evolution doesn`t work without it. So I said equivalent since it's doing the same job as DNA

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