VWBB (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/index.php)
- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- Ultimate Fighter (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=5611)

no **** Ice
define substandard... a missile that has same range or better capabilities than AMRRAM, missile modular design (various warheads guidance...s uppose close range missile witch is the most heavy "short range" ..is heavier than Sidewinder better capabilities in fact SIdewinder is posible to reach that level that was accieved 10 year ago.
This also a point to mention that avionics are the most easy upgradable part of plane..just serch the web to see some news..
well it is need to mentione tha all RUssian planes where designed in defensive roles ..this mean working in conjunction with a vast array of defensive missiles and radars..

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

no **** Ice
define substandard... a missile that has same range or better capabilities than AMRRAM, missile modular design (various warheads guidance...s uppose close range missile witch is the most heavy "short range" ..is heavier than Sidewinder better capabilities in fact SIdewinder is posible to reach that level that was accieved 10 year ago.
This also a point to mention that avionics are the most easy upgradable part of plane..just serch the web to see some news..
well it is need to mentione tha all RUssian planes where designed in defensive roles ..this mean working in conjunction with a vast array of defensive missiles and radars..

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

Russian planes were not designed in defensive roles. They have a layered C&C structure but they were plenty offensive-capable.

The Russian equipment at the end of the Cold War was NOT up to AMRAAM / AIM-7 / AIM-54 standards. The US has, overall, missiles that are harder to shake off and hit plenty hard because of superior avionics.
The MiG and Sukoti's might be easy to upgrade but if they don't have the avonics to upgrade with... eh.

btw, just because the Russian missile (Aphex, is it?) is heavier and hits harder than Sidewinder != good. It's also less manueverable (more mass) and can't be carried on a fighter in quantities (because of more weight) ... a Sidewinder gets a kill when it hits, and that's what counts

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Russian planes were not designed in defensive roles. They have a layered C&C structure but they were plenty offensive-capable.

The Russian equipment at the end of the Cold War was NOT up to AMRAAM / AIM-7 / AIM-54 standards. The US has, overall, missiles that are harder to shake off and hit plenty hard because of superior avionics.
The MiG and Sukoti's might be easy to upgrade but if they don't have the avonics to upgrade with... eh.

btw, just because the Russian missile (Aphex, is it?) is heavier and hits harder than Sidewinder != good. It's also less manueverable (more mass) and can't be carried on a fighter in quantities (because of more weight) ... a Sidewinder gets a kill when it hits, and that's what counts

__________________
[url="http://www.dopefish.com"]swim...swim...hungry...[/url]

Not Aphex, it's called Archer (R-72)...
And it's far more manueverable than sidewinder(thrust vectoring).

__________________
"Are those Drakh ?" -Navigator
"They're either Drakh or the weirdest pizza deliverytrucks I've ever seen" -capt. Anderson

A Call To Arms

Not Aphex, it's called Archer (R-72)...
And it's far more manueverable than sidewinder(thrust vectoring).

__________________
"Are those Drakh ?" -Navigator
"They're either Drakh or the weirdest pizza deliverytrucks I've ever seen" -capt. Anderson

A Call To Arms

In my opinion, ALL passive/active guidence missiles, (AIM-7, etc.) SUCK. The range is something like half of the AMRAAM, Mica, AA-12 [AMRAAMski] (and don't even get me started on the Pheonix), they require the launch aircraft to fly pretty straight to mainiain lock on the target, making the shooter a target himself. The only god thing is, that since the missle recives guidence date from the launch aircrafts radar, they are pretty hard to spoof.

In ATF my dogfighting loadouts were as follows:
Russian (Su-37), AA-12 Adders (fuselage), AA-11B (wings, and wingtips)

US (F-22) AMRAAMs and Sidewinder X's (next generation seker, the target does not have to be directly in front to lock on and fire, still under development.)

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

In my opinion, ALL passive/active guidence missiles, (AIM-7, etc.) SUCK. The range is something like half of the AMRAAM, Mica, AA-12 [AMRAAMski] (and don't even get me started on the Pheonix), they require the launch aircraft to fly pretty straight to mainiain lock on the target, making the shooter a target himself. The only god thing is, that since the missle recives guidence date from the launch aircrafts radar, they are pretty hard to spoof.

In ATF my dogfighting loadouts were as follows:
Russian (Su-37), AA-12 Adders (fuselage), AA-11B (wings, and wingtips)

US (F-22) AMRAAMs and Sidewinder X's (next generation seker, the target does not have to be directly in front to lock on and fire, still under development.)

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

Vympel R73 Archer
Vympel R77 Adder .. what is wrong with Us ?? Ammramski?
Harponsky?Tomahawksky?
well Flakbait ...only us is rigid with missiles types ..Russian AA10 Alamo R27 family they got every seeke posible on earth..semiactive, passive , active IR, anti AWACS..

Amraam? do u even know the guidance sistem? that active radar is only terminal part guidance the rest is like semiactive one or go there activate radar and hit something

did somebody heard of US missiles that will launch USAF sattelites ...but POWERD BY ENERGOMASH RD180 engine ?

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

Vympel R73 Archer
Vympel R77 Adder .. what is wrong with Us ?? Ammramski?
Harponsky?Tomahawksky?
well Flakbait ...only us is rigid with missiles types ..Russian AA10 Alamo R27 family they got every seeke posible on earth..semiactive, passive , active IR, anti AWACS..

Amraam? do u even know the guidance sistem? that active radar is only terminal part guidance the rest is like semiactive one or go there activate radar and hit something

did somebody heard of US missiles that will launch USAF sattelites ...but POWERD BY ENERGOMASH RD180 engine ?

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

It is refered to sometimes as the AMRAMski because it fills the same role as the AMRAAM. The Russian version is actually MUCH more manuverable on account of it's unconventional manuvering fins.

Oh, and you're right about the "slammer's" guidance system. I guess the words "fire and forget" had me confused.

Here is a link I found: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm10a.htm

Oh my, don't let Sheridan see this one: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm16.htm

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

It is refered to sometimes as the AMRAMski because it fills the same role as the AMRAAM. The Russian version is actually MUCH more manuverable on account of it's unconventional manuvering fins.

Oh, and you're right about the "slammer's" guidance system. I guess the words "fire and forget" had me confused.

Here is a link I found: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm10a.htm

Oh my, don't let Sheridan see this one: http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm16.htm

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

about ultimate fighter ..I can tell you that it is called Aardvark
and is like this

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

about ultimate fighter ..I can tell you that it is called Aardvark
and is like this

__________________
eng Horatiu Popovici

hhhm I'm in an urge to reply to some of the the threads here... Theres lot of information you lack, and some of the arguments post here are unsubstanciated (not your fault I'll explian).

Having contacts within My contries airforce allows me to gather information that normaly doest reach the public ( not necessarly classified Though I got some slightly ones)

First I would like to point out that AMRAAM is often overrated considering that US sells Downgraded versions to ALL its allies. keeping the originals for themselves. In Kosovo crisis that Dutch F-16MLU that shot down a mig-29 (a well advertised event) and we saw it crushed like a cookie on the ground... They even said the mig was barely within weapons range, that information is a tad DESINFORMATION. Before I say what realy hapened, I got this information because our F-16's over here are going through MLU ugrade and with it comes JDAM bombs and AMRAM's, our staff are uneasy to accept the cost-efecteviness of this missile aquisition... you see that Dutch plane was infact a formation of 2 planes (no one flies alone in combat) wich fired a total of 4 missiles, only one reached close to the mig and hit it.
Unlike standard russian ALAMO missiles the last versions of this one have more range and more kill probability than AMRAAM's outside the US even though its a passive radar missile.
The AA-12 adder is being exported int its full-featured variant.
The S-27 sold outside Russia are equiped with western equipment (from some countries like france) or with the custumers
own equipment (china, india, iran).
Western forces have no real equivalent for the AA-11 archer for a long time now.
south african, european, and israely new missiles will soon outshoot and outfly any proposed US Missile pretty soon (ex: Meteor, derby-R) and will be able to be fired to targets being targeted with the helmet.

Russian air-forces WERE mainly defensive, it is often referred by them. Most fighters were only efective with ground control, and fighting outside USSR would implicate unaceptable lack of efecteviness in detecting and intercepting foe planes.
Unlike you may know the Mig-29's first versions had virtualy no good BVR capabilty. The russians had the doctrine that basicly tells that in all aereial warfare the fighting will eventualy degenerate to close range knife fighting. Very Unlike the US many times claims.
The US is scraping all AIM-54 phoenix without even had shot one in combat.

__________________
-Weep for us Na'toth, weep for us all, I've seen the darkness, you cannot do that and be the same again... [G'kar, in Revelations]

-No money, no wife, no car, NO PROBLEMS!!!!

Member of Babylon5 to FS2 MOD
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/

Member of Wing commander to FS2 MOD
http://www.scifi3d.de/wcsaga/

hhhm I'm in an urge to reply to some of the the threads here... Theres lot of information you lack, and some of the arguments post here are unsubstanciated (not your fault I'll explian).

Having contacts within My contries airforce allows me to gather information that normaly doest reach the public ( not necessarly classified Though I got some slightly ones)

First I would like to point out that AMRAAM is often overrated considering that US sells Downgraded versions to ALL its allies. keeping the originals for themselves. In Kosovo crisis that Dutch F-16MLU that shot down a mig-29 (a well advertised event) and we saw it crushed like a cookie on the ground... They even said the mig was barely within weapons range, that information is a tad DESINFORMATION. Before I say what realy hapened, I got this information because our F-16's over here are going through MLU ugrade and with it comes JDAM bombs and AMRAM's, our staff are uneasy to accept the cost-efecteviness of this missile aquisition... you see that Dutch plane was infact a formation of 2 planes (no one flies alone in combat) wich fired a total of 4 missiles, only one reached close to the mig and hit it.
Unlike standard russian ALAMO missiles the last versions of this one have more range and more kill probability than AMRAAM's outside the US even though its a passive radar missile.
The AA-12 adder is being exported int its full-featured variant.
The S-27 sold outside Russia are equiped with western equipment (from some countries like france) or with the custumers
own equipment (china, india, iran).
Western forces have no real equivalent for the AA-11 archer for a long time now.
south african, european, and israely new missiles will soon outshoot and outfly any proposed US Missile pretty soon (ex: Meteor, derby-R) and will be able to be fired to targets being targeted with the helmet.

Russian air-forces WERE mainly defensive, it is often referred by them. Most fighters were only efective with ground control, and fighting outside USSR would implicate unaceptable lack of efecteviness in detecting and intercepting foe planes.
Unlike you may know the Mig-29's first versions had virtualy no good BVR capabilty. The russians had the doctrine that basicly tells that in all aereial warfare the fighting will eventualy degenerate to close range knife fighting. Very Unlike the US many times claims.
The US is scraping all AIM-54 phoenix without even had shot one in combat.

__________________
-Weep for us Na'toth, weep for us all, I've seen the darkness, you cannot do that and be the same again... [G'kar, in Revelations]

-No money, no wife, no car, NO PROBLEMS!!!!

Member of Babylon5 to FS2 MOD
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/

Member of Wing commander to FS2 MOD
http://www.scifi3d.de/wcsaga/

Just 2 40mm pulse? How 'bout neutron guns instead?

It is my understanding that the Russian airfoce was divide up to cover pretty much every base. They had Frontal Aviation (ground support), air superiority units, strategic bombing, and interceptor regiments. Between the various types of units, there was very little cross over. The units recieved specialized training, and the aircraft best suited to carry out their missions.

US squadrons tend to put the emphesis on multi-role capability. I find it rather disgusting that someone would even think of putting air to ground ardinance on an F-14...

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

Just 2 40mm pulse? How 'bout neutron guns instead?

It is my understanding that the Russian airfoce was divide up to cover pretty much every base. They had Frontal Aviation (ground support), air superiority units, strategic bombing, and interceptor regiments. Between the various types of units, there was very little cross over. The units recieved specialized training, and the aircraft best suited to carry out their missions.

US squadrons tend to put the emphesis on multi-role capability. I find it rather disgusting that someone would even think of putting air to ground ardinance on an F-14...

__________________
Please don't hold our president against us-it's not like we voted for him.

BTW: That ship we have permission to use in the MOD.

Thats 2 40mm Uni-Directional pulse cannons like the T-Bolts. They aren't quite as overally destructive as Neutron guns sure, but they aren't bad either.

__________________
- The Babylon Project Team

BTW: That ship we have permission to use in the MOD.

Thats 2 40mm Uni-Directional pulse cannons like the T-Bolts. They aren't quite as overally destructive as Neutron guns sure, but they aren't bad either.

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]