VWBB - IFH released

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- The Babylon Project (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- IFH released (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=9590)

Posted by Black Sheep 2000 on 12-29-2003 12:57 AM:

Working on that...may take some time. Need to get full admin powerz first...hope you can write something tomorrow...

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-29-2003 01:31 AM:

Having some prior Newtonian physics experience from playing Terminus, I had a pretty good idea of what I'd be getting into in terms of flight. It's hard as hell, but yyou can adjust. With this game dogfights are going to look more like medeval jousts than the Battle of Britain. That's not my problem.

My problem is that whenever I look at anything bigger than a transport in game, my framerate drops to about one fps. And I've knocked all the graphics settings down to nothing.

I have a Duron 1 gig, 256 RAM, a Rage Fury Pro and well over 20 gigs of free space. Not state of the art, but not archaic either. I can run FS2 just fine. No lag even in the nebulas. In IFH, whenever I look at an asteroid everything freezes up. I look over at empty space and it's just fine.

I managed to overtake some raiders on their way to take out the transport in the first mission, I matched speed, then hit the slide control and flipped around to face them. I had a perfect shot except I was looking at a goddam asteroid and my framerate tanked.

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Posted by BabProj Team on 12-29-2003 06:31 AM:

Mmmm...Rage Fury Pro is along the lines of a RivaTNT(2) as I recall. That is probably the problem...

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-29-2003 04:49 PM:

The bigger problem is I can't afford to do anything about it.

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Posted by JamieK on 12-29-2003 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by FlakBait
Having some prior Newtonian physics experience from playing Terminus, I had a pretty good idea of what I'd be getting into in terms of flight. It's hard as hell, but yyou can adjust. With this game dogfights are going to look more like medeval jousts than the Battle of Britain. That's not my problem.

My problem is that whenever I look at anything bigger than a transport in game, my framerate drops to about one fps. And I've knocked all the graphics settings down to nothing.

I have a Duron 1 gig, 256 RAM, a Rage Fury Pro and well over 20 gigs of free space. Not state of the art, but not archaic either. I can run FS2 just fine. No lag even in the nebulas. In IFH, whenever I look at an asteroid everything freezes up. I look over at empty space and it's just fine.

I managed to overtake some raiders on their way to take out the transport in the first mission, I matched speed, then hit the slide control and flipped around to face them. I had a perfect shot except I was looking at a goddam asteroid and my framerate tanked.

How did you get in front of him when you were going the same speed as him???

Posted by Black Sheep 2000 on 12-29-2003 05:26 PM:

@Ranger1...reregister please...your name has been reset....

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-29-2003 06:35 PM:

I overtook then matched speeds. As I passed them I was already slowing my ship down. Or trying to at lease. It's pretty moot at this point.

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Posted by Black Sheep 2000 on 12-29-2003 06:49 PM:

FlakBait...launch the IFH launcher (folder IFH/bin) and disable motion blur. It is a prob with the newer ATI cards...

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Posted by haderak on 12-29-2003 07:14 PM:

Heeeeey I just tryied it today...after downloading it at university, nothing like 2024 KB broadband and donload IFH at 330K/s

I have to say I dont know why ppl complain about the flight model. I find it more realistic and more playable than the this MOD. At least with the current tables anyway.

My jaw droped to the floor when I say the Intro. I wasnt disapointed with sapace combat. Since I never got newtonian space sims before.

Graphics are cristal clear sharp. And my stick works with it, dampening efects are surely in order for next release, but I'm impressed so far.

2 thumbs Up!! Pro like work.
IFH team should publicitize their work, I think this software could win some sort of prize.

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-29-2003 07:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Black Sheep 2000
FlakBait...launch the IFH launcher (folder IFH/bin) and disable motion blur. It is a prob with the newer ATI cards...

Been there, done that, still a problem. Thank you though. And the card's around four years old, it's not one of their newer products.

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Posted by karajorma on 12-29-2003 07:47 PM:

Turn off trueform if you've got it turned on too. Gave me crappy framerates on my R9800 till I turned it off. (I suspect you aren't using it considering the card you've got but it's worth checking )

My big problem/complaint with the game is the targetting system. In the second mission I have to target green to kill it yet by the time I've cycled through all the other targets in the area to find it, it's too late to do anything about it. Is there a quicker way to target it or have I been spoiled by FS2's escort targetting system?

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Posted by Alphakiller on 12-29-2003 09:28 PM:

Scroll the other way through the targeting list? I found it pretty quickly, put a pair of missiles into it, problem solved.

some other comments:

Mr "these controls are an insult to B5": I guess we watched different Babylon 5s, can you show me your version where the physics were as ludicrously fake as they are in 99% of space-sim games, Freespace 2 included? I bet it'd be a lot less cool than the realistic physics I'm using in IFH...I reccomend you read the readme, specifically:

quote:

1) Flying a Starfury is hard
2) See 1)

Flakbait:
A Rage Fury Pro also won't hack it in this game. Yeah, you can run FS2 just fine, but I'd like to point out the Freespace 2 engine is from 1999, and IFH is 2003. There's a four year gap there, so yeah, I can see your hardware having problems. Major ones.

(Tangentally, this is "CS Syndrome" effect #7: "But my computer runs CS just fine, why can't it run [game that's 5 years newer and about thirty times as graphically intensive]" ... so you're in good company

)

I sympathize; it was a loooong time before I got out on my own enough to do my own PC upgrades, and I quite like my current box. Ironically, my video card is my weak point too (GF3, heh) but it's not _quite_ as weak.
tell you what, if I upgrade, I'll cut you a deal on my card

Also, unless you have a Radeon 8500, don't use Truform. It's still there as a driver legacy but hardware support for it in newer cards is disabled.

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-29-2003 10:05 PM:

I knew I was due for a hardware upgrade. My roommate might sell me a Radeon he no longer uses. Again, not state of the art, but better than what I've got.

And if you think this game is lousy in terms of controls and targeting-well, if you'd have played Terminus you'd know what bad can truly be. They tried to create a Newtonian physics game that would work on PC, Mac and Linux. 'Nuff said.

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Posted by JamieK on 12-29-2003 10:33 PM:

I am reading, everyone saying, it is realistic, with space travel, you can't say which is realistic for it, since we haven't really properly gone space travelling yet. (yeh, to the moon, but that doesn't count)

I just personally think that the control model should be scaled down, since you can't say this is realistic for space travel, since none of us have accually done it before.

Besides, i have seen in B5 Shows, where starfuries and other fighter ships have done complete 360 turns at full burn and not going into reverse.

It is just that, i hate it when you need to spend a while to learn to control it properly, if it was Earth Force Academy or whatever they call it, i wouldn't mind spending years and years training....but come on, it is a game and you are meant to enjoy it.

I don't think the orginal B5 game was gonna have these newtonian physics, since i saw a little footage of it and there was no inertia skids or whatever you call it, i just don't know why they needed to have it in there.

It is good to have it there when you strafe and all that, but i hate it when you just need to turn away from a asteroid or chase a fighter that passes by....I wanna be able to chase after it right away, not wait for a minute for the speed to go back up. (by then it would be mission failed or finished or the ship is dead or something like that)

thats my opinion. (so no need to be sarcastic about it.)

Posted by JamieK on 12-29-2003 10:37 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by FlakBait
I knew I was due for a hardware upgrade. My roommate might sell me a Radeon he no longer uses. Again, not state of the art, but better than what I've got.

And if you think this game is lousy in terms of controls and targeting-well, if you'd have played Terminus you'd know what bad can truly be. They tried to create a Newtonian physics game that would work on PC, Mac and Linux. 'Nuff said.

i tried that game, it was total **** and rather primitive for the time....i think pac-man was better....and i think pac-man is **** also.

I just personally think it should be toned down by 50% or something like that.

When Homeworld 2 come out, i over-joyed, but when i found out it had a Dynamic AI, i tried it and returned the game, since i wasn't enjoying it....i got frustrated that i was getting thrashed every second.......It isn't exactly the same thing, but it is frustrating me that in IFH, i have seen AI fighters doing complete U-turns and not slowing down.

They move like in Freespace 2, but i go like on ice.

....not fair IMO.

Posted by karajorma on 12-29-2003 11:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Alphakiller
Scroll the other way through the targeting list? I found it pretty quickly, put a pair of missiles into it, problem solved.

Yeah. I tried targetting it from the start of the mission and it becomes easier if you do it then rather than waiting for the message. But the targetting definately needs improving. FS2 did it much better and as you say it's 5 years older

JamieK : What the hell are you on? Seriously.

The Ai pilots don't have any unfair advantage over the player. They just understand the system better than you do. I've still seen them **** it up completely and fly past my with barely a velocity difference and their guns pointing away from me.

Plus they never seem to figure out that I always thrust to the left since it's the easiest key for me to reach

If you don't like the newtonian physics I suggest you go play something else because this is exactly how Babylon 5 is meant to be (Check All Alone in the Night for a good example of a StarFury flying backwards). If you match speeds with one of them you'll notice that they almost certainly are travelling far slower than you are.

Posted by Alphakiller on 12-30-2003 02:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JamieK

I just personally think it should be toned down by 50% or something like that.

They move like in Freespace 2, but i go like on ice. ....not fair IMO.

Tone _what_ down 50%?
The physics? Not gonna happen. What'd be the point then, "half realistic physics?"

Also, watch them pull their U-turns but notice they're not pulling dime-stop 180s. The AI uses inertial mode and the slide keys very, very effectively. It's completely fair - they're just a lot more experienced than you. Keep at it.

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Posted by BabProj Team on 12-30-2003 02:56 AM:

Reurning a game because the AI is giving you a thrashing...in a few days? Eeks. I still get my ass kicked by C&C Generals Zero Hour AI and I've had it for months now

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Posted by FlakBait on 12-30-2003 05:14 AM:

Watching an airplane banking around is one thing. Actually being up there in the cockpit is quite different.

Going from watching 'furies duke it out on your television to actually flying one on your computer is a hell of an adjustment. that said, I think they should really come out with a basic flight training set of missions. That was the one thing I liked about Terminus, it had a decent instruction program.

It might go something like:
Mission 1: HUD and forwards and backwards flight (Introduce concept of inertia)
Mission 2: Turning and sliding (done near a ship or station to provide a visual reference point)
Mission 3: Obstacle course
Missions 4+5: The existing training mission with a save point when you enter hyperspace. (That's one looooong ass mission.)

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Posted by Alphakiller on 12-30-2003 06:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire
Reurning a game because the AI is giving you a thrashing...in a few days? Eeks. I still get my ass kicked by C&C Generals Zero Hour AI and I've had it for months now

That's because your units only do 70% damage compared to the enemy

I've found in IFH, it's mostly jockeying for position. You have to be more calculating than just blasting in and praying for a hit - you won't get one. Period. Vector match and slide in close, and then, _blam_ ... they're toast.
It's primarily positioning - the actual killshot takes seconds at best, since you can likely just get several hits in a row and anything but the toughest of foes (if there's one fighter I _don't_ look forward to fighting in this game, it's a Nial) is gone.

So, if you want to be more effective, see what they're doing, see how they're manuevering; then try and match your curve. Get close, along a parallel track, initiate a slide in interial mode - to dodge any incoming fire - , and light 'em up.

I'll tell you that I've successfully - at close range - circled a capital ship a couple times keeping my nose pointed at it the entire time, using nothing but slide keys. And I didn't get hit, either

I guess the bullet point version is:
1) See what your target is doing and don't rush in
2) slide, slide, slide, slide. You have 3 axes to slide in, use 'em.
3) don't miss.

Edit: Also, it would behoove you all to pay close attention to the database, and the cutscene after the first campaign mission. Some interesting stuff in there.

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