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-- Balancing issues and proposal (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=6294)

No ship In B5 is invulnerable. All younger races Cap ships can be damaged or destroyed by fighters sometimes with some sort of support.

Even against vorlon fighters you can be sucessfull, remenber that you can fly the T-bolt and with its rapid fire gun you have a good chance of hitting it and destroying it despite its superior speed and fire power. A shadow fighter would be easier as its gun has a slow fire rate, all you gatta do is being good in evasive action and when it cosses your gun sights... BOOOOOOM!
However I think their power will give an unique thrill to the game as you'll be forced to plan the best tactic when defending allied capships, your heart will pump harder.
I think even engaging their Cap ships could be donne, you could damage their subsystems so that bigger ships could take on them, possibly in numeric advantage (or the opposite when using telepaths). Like In Wing commander prophecy, you had to take on alien Cap ships in pre-emptive strikes so that they could be engaged, this adds startegy and eleminates repetitiveness of the game, less arcade feel.

About fighter mounted missiles, its cannon EA fighters and narn fighters carried them on some occasions. however their only efective against ships below minbari levels. As a torp would be zapped as you lawnched it with nasty consequences to you or your wing mates.

There was a season 1 ep that Narn fighters (were part of a mercenary squad) raided centauri assets, and when the debris were ispected it was found that the frazis used very powerfull heavy missiles on their targets. Also the raiders attacked B5 with missiles barrage too.

__________________
-Weep for us Na'toth, weep for us all, I've seen the darkness, you cannot do that and be the same again... [G'kar, in Revelations]

-No money, no wife, no car, NO PROBLEMS!!!!

Member of Babylon5 to FS2 MOD
http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon/

Member of Wing commander to FS2 MOD
http://www.scifi3d.de/wcsaga/

In "Matters of Honor" there's no shadow fighter destroyed by a Frazi... Only a battlecrab by a "Bonehead manouvre"...

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"Are those Drakh ?" -Navigator
"They're either Drakh or the weirdest pizza deliverytrucks I've ever seen" -capt. Anderson

A Call To Arms

In "Matters of Honor" there's no shadow fighter destroyed by a Frazi... Only a battlecrab by a "Bonehead manouvre"...

__________________
"Are those Drakh ?" -Navigator
"They're either Drakh or the weirdest pizza deliverytrucks I've ever seen" -capt. Anderson

A Call To Arms

Originally posted by Krytor

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With the Earth Minbarri war, tatical Nukes they had. You would think they would think of arming them on a fighter. But that would probibly be a one or two shot load. who knows. It is up to the staff.

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So the consensus is that the advanced races are too advanced to be properly integrated into the game. Where does that leave one of the best parts of the universe - the ultra-powered ancient ones?

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__________________
…though we are not now that’s strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven, that which we are, we are.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find…and not to yield.

Tennyson.
-------------------------------------------------
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[url=http://ja.ravencommunity.net]'Star Wars: Jedi Apprentice'[/url] for Jedi Outcast (Co-Leader, Modeller, Scriptwriter)
[url=http://www.ja.ravencommunity.net/lf/index.php]Forcefare Productions Network[/url] (Moderator, Co-Founder)
[url=http://www.greyfusion.net]GreyFusion[/url] (Moderator, Newshound)
[url=http://www.neocroncentral.net]NeocronCentral[/url] (Moderator, Newshound)

Originally posted by Krytor

quote:

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With the Earth Minbarri war, tatical Nukes they had. You would think they would think of arming them on a fighter. But that would probibly be a one or two shot load. who knows. It is up to the staff.

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quote:

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So the consensus is that the advanced races are too advanced to be properly integrated into the game. Where does that leave one of the best parts of the universe - the ultra-powered ancient ones?

---

__________________
…though we are not now that’s strength which in old days moved Earth and Heaven, that which we are, we are.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek, to find…and not to yield.

Tennyson.
-------------------------------------------------
[url=http://starwars-tpmtc.fateback.com/index.html]'Star Wars Phantom Menace TC'[/url] for Jedi Outcast (Co-Leader, Modeller, Webmaster)
[url=http://ja.ravencommunity.net]'Star Wars: Jedi Apprentice'[/url] for Jedi Outcast (Co-Leader, Modeller, Scriptwriter)
[url=http://www.ja.ravencommunity.net/lf/index.php]Forcefare Productions Network[/url] (Moderator, Co-Founder)
[url=http://www.greyfusion.net]GreyFusion[/url] (Moderator, Newshound)
[url=http://www.neocroncentral.net]NeocronCentral[/url] (Moderator, Newshound)

Sorry, the episode I should have referred to is "Revelations". I must have just got mixed up between the names of the season 2 and season 3 starting episodes

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Sorry, the episode I should have referred to is "Revelations". I must have just got mixed up between the names of the season 2 and season 3 starting episodes

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Can the game be scripted in such a way that the proximity of a ship designated to hold a telepath will decrease the performance of a particular (Shadow) ship to "hold" it in place like the show? Can we then either observe or order the heavy warships to target that particular vessel? (In my experimenting with FRED the capital ships rarely behaved as ordered, even when they were set to take orders). That would be pretty cool. I still think it would be dull to run away every time a Shadow vessel showed up. Perhaps in the early stages of a campaign, but eventually there should be some victories. The missions in Freespace 2 where you were constantly on the defensive and abandoning system after system were very dramatic and moody, but constant "escort freighters to the jump node while endless waves of Shivan fighters attack" missions got old quickly.

If the decision is made to make Shadow vessels relatively invulnerable (to players), at least we have the Narns, Centauri and Terrans to kick around.

Can the game be scripted in such a way that the proximity of a ship designated to hold a telepath will decrease the performance of a particular (Shadow) ship to "hold" it in place like the show? Can we then either observe or order the heavy warships to target that particular vessel? (In my experimenting with FRED the capital ships rarely behaved as ordered, even when they were set to take orders). That would be pretty cool. I still think it would be dull to run away every time a Shadow vessel showed up. Perhaps in the early stages of a campaign, but eventually there should be some victories. The missions in Freespace 2 where you were constantly on the defensive and abandoning system after system were very dramatic and moody, but constant "escort freighters to the jump node while endless waves of Shivan fighters attack" missions got old quickly.

If the decision is made to make Shadow vessels relatively invulnerable (to players), at least we have the Narns, Centauri and Terrans to kick around.

Children children children.....you go running about over these issues and you forget about the GAMEPLAY.

Shadow and Vorlon ships will be in general pretty tough and pretty deadly. However, that does not mean that I'm going to let any of you convince me that every fighter should die in 1 second and that every capital ship will get killed in one shot.

A small group of G'Quans shouldn't be able to take down a Shadow Battlecrab by themselves, but they could damage one.

Shadow Battlecrabs will be in general faster than Vorlon ships and have two beams on them. One will be a Anti-Cap Slasher. The other will be a Anit-fighter beam. Both will look pretty similar but the anti-fighter beam will do much less damage. So you CAN take a hit from a Shadow beam - just don't try to too often.

Shadow and Vorlon fighters will be effective but that doesn't mean that two squadrons of Thunderbolts pumping energy into a Shadow fighter won't bring it down. Heck, during Into the Fire, two Thunderbolts succeeded in blowing apart a Vorlon fighter in only a few shots.

First Ones are not invulnerable nor will we be making them invulnerable. But in a one on one pounding match, a First One should win.

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- The Babylon Project Team

Children children children.....you go running about over these issues and you forget about the GAMEPLAY.

Shadow and Vorlon ships will be in general pretty tough and pretty deadly. However, that does not mean that I'm going to let any of you convince me that every fighter should die in 1 second and that every capital ship will get killed in one shot.

A small group of G'Quans shouldn't be able to take down a Shadow Battlecrab by themselves, but they could damage one.

Shadow Battlecrabs will be in general faster than Vorlon ships and have two beams on them. One will be a Anti-Cap Slasher. The other will be a Anit-fighter beam. Both will look pretty similar but the anti-fighter beam will do much less damage. So you CAN take a hit from a Shadow beam - just don't try to too often.

Shadow and Vorlon fighters will be effective but that doesn't mean that two squadrons of Thunderbolts pumping energy into a Shadow fighter won't bring it down. Heck, during Into the Fire, two Thunderbolts succeeded in blowing apart a Vorlon fighter in only a few shots.

First Ones are not invulnerable nor will we be making them invulnerable. But in a one on one pounding match, a First One should win.

__________________
- IceFire
Volition Watch Project Manager
[url=http://www.volitionwatch.com]Volition Watch[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/blackwater]BlackWater Operations[/url], [url=http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/babylon]The Babylon Project[/url], [url=http://terra.sourceforge.net]Machina Terra[/url], [url=http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ott/]Over The Top[/url]

quote:

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Originally posted by vengeance
In my experimenting with FRED the capital ships rarely behaved as ordered, even when they were set to take orders.

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__________________
"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
-Shogun Tokugawa

Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

quote:

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Originally posted by vengeance
In my experimenting with FRED the capital ships rarely behaved as ordered, even when they were set to take orders.

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__________________
"Losing your temper is sign of worries or panic"
-Shogun Tokugawa

Aku. Soku. Zan.
-The wolves of Mibu, Shinsen gumi

Creator of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/miburo1]Tale of EAS Janus[/URL] campaign
Also leader of [URL=http://www.hot.ee/honorofomega/]Honor of Omega[/URL] campaign
FREDer and general errant boy of mighty [URL=http://http://www.3dactionplanet.com/hlp/hosted/mindgames/]Mind Games[/URL], which power no-one can escape. There is always a first time.

Capital ships do indeed follow their orders (whenever possible) but the trick is getting those orders 100% right. Having a ship disabled (e.g. can't fire beams, maximum speed reduced) by coming in to close proximity and in the correct facing of a ship with telepaths on board is actually one of the simpler things to achieve. Just a couple of distance and facing sexps and you're sorted (I have actually done this already so I know it works).

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Capital ships do indeed follow their orders (whenever possible) but the trick is getting those orders 100% right. Having a ship disabled (e.g. can't fire beams, maximum speed reduced) by coming in to close proximity and in the correct facing of a ship with telepaths on board is actually one of the simpler things to achieve. Just a couple of distance and facing sexps and you're sorted (I have actually done this already so I know it works).

__________________
When the final reckoning comes only the damned will be there to see it.

Excellent...