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-- Shivans (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=1387)

No wonder the Hecate is so crummy.....the 'Zogs secretly tossed out the good Terran design and submitted a crummy 'Zog one instead! No wonder I like the Aeolus and Deimos so much....good solid Terran warships.

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Originally posted by Ace:
To back up the "last moment" theory, in the great war the Lucifer made a seemingly impossible jump between the flanks for the battle of Vasuda (that manuever cost the alliance the Galatea) the ancients may have destroyed the nodes between the Knossos nebula and Vasuda in order to buy time for their gambit, which failed.

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That's right Snipes

'Zogs! I like that... hmmm...

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Ace
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When will people learn.

The Hecate is more of a carrier in a truer sense of the word while the Hatshepsut is more of a destroyer.

The Hecate has a far more of a substantial anti-fighter defense than any other destroyer class around and its forward firepower is still quite good.

Granted that the Vasudans have a better destroyer for engaging other capital ships but the Hecate isn't far behind and it makes up for things in other categories.

Oh yeah, and EMPs wouldn't necessarily affect the Shivans since we already have EMP sheilding on aircraft like Air Force One as well as several other expensive military jets.

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Originally posted by Ace:
That's right Snipes

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In Tech Database, and HLP:
Each Shivan leg ends in a very strong claw, capable of crushing even the sturdiest of known alloys.

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The EMP warheads are designed against Terran and Vasudan electronic systems, the outer casings of Shivan warships are also mildly effected. (i.e. the pulse slightly disrupts the weapons systems since they are open out of the vessel's hull structure)

As for why the Vasudans have fewer ships, you will be informed on a need to know basis, pilot.

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Ace
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Originally posted by Ace:
As for why the Vasudans have fewer ships, you will be informed on a need to know basis, pilot.

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Originally posted by Snipes:
Maybe it wasn't you, and I just gave you credit for it...

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Ace and I have similar beliefs on Shivans and I'd say that they are among the most realistic versions of all the theories out there.

The theory goes that they were created by a master race to serve a purpose for them. If that purpose is the same as it is now, that remains to be seen. This master race could still be in existance somewhere directing Shivan operations or they could be extinct leaving the Shivans to fend for themselves.

Shivans are not a terrestrial species. They hold little value in actually controling planets. We know that they will attack planets in the case of Vasuda Prime although they only appear to do this to homeworlds (Altair/Vasuda Prime/attempt at Sol). We also have seen that they are extremely adept in operating in zero-G environments. The hall fight shows us that the Terran marines needed magnetic clams on their boots but the Shivans seemed to move from surface to suface with little trouble. The Shivans that we have seen seem to have some sort of biomechanical exoskeleton. We don't know if this is integrated into the inner core being or if its more of an encounter suit.

Shivan motives are unknown. In Descent: FreeSpace we know that they were specifically after us. On arrival, they attacked Ross128, and later launched attacks from Ikeya and into Antares, Ribos, through Vega, Deneb, Vasuda Prime, Beta Aquilae, and Delta Serpentis. They are extremely adept at waging war and co-ordinating attacks. Contrary to that fact however, is Shivan behavior after the Lucifer destruction. The FreeSpace 2 tech room reports that in the years following the destruction of the Lucifer, Shivan forces became very erradic and unco-ordinated in their attacks.

It seems that they rely on some sort of hive mind or directive structure that maintains order among the different divisions and that the Lucifer had such a command and control ability. This perhaps explains why it would have been shielded.

In FreeSpace 2, the Terrans and Vasudans were not of importance to the Shivans. Alot of people who have played through the game think to the contrary because we commonly regard ourselves as important in the conflict, which we were not. Eighty Sathanas juggernaughts would have easily blasted through anything that the GTVA had setup at either the EpPegasi or Vega node. They however, moved to the Capella sun and using a subspace device of some sort, managed to make the star go super nova. In the overall scheme of things, this was an unesscessary waste of time and energy for the Shivans if they were trying to kill a few billion people in Capella. I don't buy that they were trying to jump to Sol either, there was no point to this exercise if they were going to Sol.

What happened at Capella has nothing to do with the Terrans or the Vasudans. As DaveB said, if there was going to be a FreeSpace 3, the player would learn that the Shivans are only part of the much larger problem.

How Bosch fits into things is unknown as well. We know he made limited contact with them. Maybe it was curiosity.

Perhaps the Shivans were not even *aware* of our presence. Sure they tried to toast our homeworld, but since I think of them more of an element of nature rather than an individually intelligent species. They might have tried to toast Sol like we blink our eyes. When Bosch contacted them, it would be like a mosquito asking you how your day was.

Finally, Shivans and Subspace. We know that the Shivans are connected with subspace. While the Ancients and later the Terran and Vasudans gained the ability to track ships through subspace (intersystem and intrasystem) the Shivans have a totally different understanding of subspace. They seem to feel it and they know when it is being used. Their military tactics focus on controling subspace nodes rather than planets. Ace's analogy of dropping a rock in a pond and watching the ripples move outwards is sort of what the Shivans pick up on when someone uses subspace.

FreeSpace 3 would probably answer alot of our questions about the Shivans, unfortunately the shame of it all is that the most mysterious species of any computer game that I've ever played may never be understood by the fans at all.

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Originally posted by boct1584:
[QUOTE]I remember I posted that, becuase I remember I used part of ST:Voyager's summary of Species 8472 as part of it.

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I believe less in the Shivans being constructs, but more in that they are ancient beyond measure and are so old that they are an integral part of well... how should I say... the universe's balance.

There is something *much* bigger going on, and the Shivans have been dealing with it for millions of years, however we're in their way

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Ace
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quote:

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Originally posted by Ace:
I believe less in the Shivans being constructs, but more in that they are ancient beyond measure and are so old that they are an integral part of well... how should I say... the universe's balance.

There is something *much* bigger going on, and the Shivans have been dealing with it for millions of years, however we're in their way

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I'm not disagreeing that the master race would have been inferior to the Shivans, infact, they could have been created as a means for their defense.

The Shivans are too technologically oriented to have just evolved into the system that they are now. They work almost like an ant colony (I realize the tech room says not to treat Shivans like insects) where the workers seem to have little or no intelligence. It makes more sense that the Shivans were concieved to work in this fashion rather than just evolved into it.

Also, if you go from a symbolistic point of view, the Shivans are the universes' anger personified. Perhaps they are the universe personified.

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Originally posted by IceFire:
I'm not disagreeing that the master race would have been inferior to the Shivans, infact, they could have been created as a means for their defense.

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The ancients are 8,000 years old.

Their empire in space I assume lasted between 200-800 years and was filled with brutal war after war.

Their empire on their planet lasted for at least 3000 years, conquering all of the rival countries and then moving to space.

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Ace
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Originally posted by Ace:
Their empire on their planet lasted for at least 3000 years, conquering all of the rival countries and then moving to space.

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Terran and Vasudan shields were stolen from the Shivans so the effect would be the same. Not sure exactly what it would be since I don't think we've been given an indepth reason for why shields work in FreeSpace.

I figure the effects would be hazardous however.

Ancients definately did not create the Shivans. The Shivans are more advanced in every field than anything that the ancients had, including the Knossos portal.

The Terrans and Vasudans managed to survive the Shivan onslaught because they were able to adapt as where it seems that the Ancients were spread too thin or didn't learn enough about the Shivans until it was too late. In any case, the Ancients were yet another speed bump in the Shivans history of time rather than anything significant.

So, you also imply that The Shivans have some hidden Agenda?

What it could possibly, no one knows, right?

Well, if Shivans are so much more advanced, why do they only have 3 different guns, whereas T/V's have 6+?