VWBB - The shivans' origin

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- FreeSpace 1/2 Discussion (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=33)
-- The shivans' origin (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=7419)

Posted by Someone on 10-02-2002 08:50 AM:

Hmmm...

Got a point there, Karajorma.

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Posted by IronMajor on 10-02-2002 02:10 PM:

I think I remember that the Vasudans were decended from the Ancients(?)
If true, could the shivans just be trying to finish what they stated? After thier defeat in the Great War they decided on containment, hence Capella (sp?)

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Posted by karajorma on 10-02-2002 02:29 PM:

Again there is no evidence of this either. Someone voiced it as a theory cause some planets in vasudan space were once part of the ancients empire.
It's a possibility but it's equally or even more likely that vasudans were one of the races subdued by the ancients

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Posted by Jacc on 10-02-2002 04:59 PM:

Ancients thrived some 8000 years ago, IIRC? OK, at that time Vasudans were most likely sentient, intelligent and advanced civilization (just take a look what Earth looked like, we already had permanent settlements and cultivation, and that is to be considered as advanced culture). Did the Ancients just leave the Vasudans alone, or did they never find them (which seems quite unlikely)?

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Posted by Someone on 10-03-2002 10:33 AM:

I think the Vasudans were never found and that they colonized planets with Ancient ruins on them.

But this is interesting...The Vasudans as either a splinter colony of the Ancients or as degenerate Ancients...

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Posted by Jacc on 10-03-2002 10:38 AM:

Planets with advanced life - or any life at all - can be very easily detected, even with current (early-2000s) technology. All it needs is a spectrometre, a telescope and some radists. And I believe the Ancients did scan every single planet in the vicinity of their colonies.

What was the result of the Old Discussion about the Ancient home planet? Was it declared to be on Altair, or was Altair just another colony?

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Posted by hayabusa on 10-03-2002 01:43 PM:

I think there`s one, simple thing which can be added:

If there were no Shivans, Terrans would met another race, as mighty as Shivans are.
It` s probably going that way: the one advanced race rises in power and begins to subdue all others. After certain amount of time in the Galaxy ( actually: in a part of the Galaxy, the Galaxy itself is far too big to be dominated by one race, empire or anything) there will be one, dominant race with the opponents defeated.

So in our part of the Galaxy the Shivans are on top and now they defend their highest position. It could be some explanation of what they do.

BTW: Aren`t we dreaming on subduing or defeating the Shivans some day?
Bosch thought about an alliance with the Shivans. If they`re dominants... well the Bosch`s idea is mad, but not stupid.

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Posted by karajorma on 10-03-2002 09:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jacc
Planets with advanced life - or any life at all - can be very easily detected, even with current (early-2000s) technology. All it needs is a spectrometre, a telescope and some radists. And I believe the Ancients did scan every single planet in the vicinity of their colonies.

What was the result of the Old Discussion about the Ancient home planet? Was it declared to be on Altair, or was Altair just another colony?

Life may be easy to detect but if the life form is still in the stone age it would be quite hard to spot them especially if they are confined to one particular continent or island.

Suppose you landed on an alien planet and found that there was a stone age civilisation half a world away on an island the size of greenland? Would you bother flying halfway across the world to invade them? Or would you just ignore them and spend your resources on capturing other worlds?

If the ancients even noticed the vasudans they probably left them alone cause they weren`t worth bothering with.

Posted by Someone on 10-04-2002 08:43 AM:

...question:

For any emissions to catch, doesn't that race send out radio-signals over its surface or into space?

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Posted by Delsin on 10-09-2002 08:05 AM:

Well, we can establish atleast a few things regarding the Shivans:

They have a freighter fleet. This means their ships are not self-supporting entities, which sort of rules out the notion that they are a 'cosmic force.' Their warships need to be supplied from a core industrial base just like the GTVA's.

They seem awefully aggressive for a nomadic species. If they really are refugees from a ruined empire then why are they so quick to expend themselves fighting the GTVA? Or the Ancients, for that matter. It would be a pointless waste of what little life their species has left.

They've been around for thousands of years, and are willing to expend the ships and crew needed to destroy any race they come across. They have to be an established empire to do that.

Now a question:

What exactly was the purpose of the three devices the SOC destroyed during its Shivan infiltration mission?

Posted by karajorma on 10-09-2002 08:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Delsin
Now a question:

What exactly was the purpose of the three devices the SOC destroyed during its Shivan infiltration mission?

To give the player something new to blow up/To leave a plot device for FS3

Although the devices are refered to as Comm Nodes in FRED it's pretty hard to tell what they are actually for.

Posted by BlackDove on 10-09-2002 12:13 PM:

They were the things that placed calls to the Sathanas Juggernauts/fleet? Or an even wilder idea, it's something to enable communication between sub-space and normal space...thing is, (well my theory when I'm going nuts) if the Shivans really are a flux from sub-space, then the comm nodes would be..."creating" the Sathy's... (ok that's really out there)

And uhh, I'm surprised nobody pointed it out but, the timeline the dude wrote in the thread_starthing_post is about 2000-2500 years off...it's 8000 years at 2366, not 8000 at 0, right?

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Posted by karajorma on 10-09-2002 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove
They were the things that placed calls to the Sathanas Juggernauts/fleet? Or an even wilder idea, it's something to enable communication between sub-space and normal space...thing is, (well my theory when I'm going nuts) if the Shivans really are a flux from sub-space, then the comm nodes would be..."creating" the Sathy's... (ok that's really out there)

And uhh, I'm surprised nobody pointed it out but, the timeline the dude wrote in the thread_starthing_post is about 2000-2500 years off...it's 8000 years at 2366, not 8000 at 0, right?

Check more carefully

This one almost caught me out too but fortunately I reread after posting and noticed that he gives the year as ~5665 BC when the ancients were wiped out. That's 8000 years before the events of FS2

As for the comm nodes you can go completely mad with them as since we never actually learned what the were officially you can have them do anything you want

I like the idea of the nodes creating the juggernauts from subspace. The shivans would have needed replacements when alpha blew them up of course

If you do believe that the shivans are birthed from subspace (I don`t but hey )then it makes sense

Posted by hayabusa on 10-11-2002 02:21 PM:

I think Shivans use the subspace, but subspace is not their origin. probably, they may use it as a source of energy ( maybe they can detect and use gravity waves, or some other source of energy we cannot use ). Sathanases are ( maybe??? ) not beeing constructed just like GTVA ships, but they rise... remember Derelict, part of the Briefing about that Lucifer destroyer?

one important notice about shivan freighters: they`re used to transport Shivans ( so pretty much like Argo) and to bring parts for fighters and other craft, but there was nothing about supply ships for the capitals. Miners were collecting the gas from the nebula - and probably they can give it back to the capitals with no "third party". There`s no evidence the Shivans need anything except ships, subspace and nebula`s gas.

( correct me if I wrote something wrong )

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Posted by BlackDove on 10-11-2002 02:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by karajorma

Check more carefully This one almost caught me out too but fortunately I reread after posting and noticed that he gives the year as ~5665 BC when the ancients were wiped out. That's 8000 years before the events of FS2

As for the comm nodes you can go completely mad with them as since we never actually learned what the were officially you can have them do anything you want

I like the idea of the nodes creating the juggernauts from subspace. The shivans would have needed replacements when alpha blew them up of course If you do believe that the shivans are birthed from subspace (I don`t but hey )then it makes sense

Ahh, yep, you're right

quote:
Originally posted by hayabusa
... remember Derelict, part of the Briefing about that Lucifer destroyer?

Derelict isn't official O.o

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Posted by Lady Rose on 10-11-2002 04:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BlackDove
Derelict isn't official O.o

Yeah it isn't, but should be

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Posted by karajorma on 10-11-2002 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lady Rose

Yeah it isn't, but should be

No it shouldn`t.

It may be good but a lot of us would have to abandon our campaigns or make them as carrying on from FS2 ignoring the events of deralict

Posted by BlackDove on 10-11-2002 10:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Lady Rose

Yeah it isn't, but should be

Thx for the input

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Posted by Delsin on 10-12-2002 12:49 AM:

Derelict was a good effort, but I would have liked to have seen it shortened by about 30 missions or so. Quality over quantity...

Posted by BlackDove on 10-12-2002 01:22 AM:

Somebody please explain the facts of life to this kid, I'm about to strangle the boy.

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