VWBB - Centauri vs Earth Alliance

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- The Babylon Project (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=16)
-- Centauri vs Earth Alliance (https://volitionwatch.game-warden.com/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=4707)

Posted by Assassin on 11-21-2001 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire

If the EA can take on a Drakh attack fleet on a few hours notice and do fairly decently, then I think they can handle the Centauri.

I recognize a similar quote from ItB...

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Posted by Mr. Fury on 11-21-2001 05:39 PM:

"My people can handle themselves. We took care of the Dilgar. We can take care of the Minbari."
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-- General Lefcourt and Londo in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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Posted by MCO Strife on 11-21-2001 05:41 PM:

ok I`m gonna go with EA, one word "NUKES"

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Posted by Mr. Fury on 11-21-2001 06:00 PM:

Posted by Phantom on 11-21-2001 06:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MCO Strife
ok I`m gonna go with EA, one word "NUKES"

Yeah, and then the Centauri start using mass drivers and things
get REALLY messy.

Posted by haderak on 11-21-2001 06:24 PM:

ooh lord here we go again... another infamous whoVSwho debate, will someone call the argumentist and ask who would whin? I would feel stupid.
I cant say who would whin, there are many variables but I still say the centauri have a not-so-small advantage over EA, no matter what these Pro-EA-patriot-radicals say.
The centauri have superior tech, a large fleet, (perhaps larger than EA's) large territory and resouses acording to the series. Theres no way you can say EA could best them in any of these areas, other tha this is mere speculation, does anyone of those so called Pro-EA-patriot-radicals would think in a script for the series exactly as the authors of the series would?

WHO DECIDES WHO WOULD WIN IS JMS (or whatever his name is..)

All you can do is search the episodes for evidence that EA is superior in tech agains all we heard and see in them.

Lets find evidence that an omega fleet would blow away a primus or a secundus fleet . I deffy you.

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Posted by Triggy on 11-21-2001 07:18 PM:

Vorchans can't carry any fighters and Primuses can only carry around 12 Sentris so there isn't a lot of fighter support on the Centauri side. The Vorchans do make up for this by being incredibly mobile and having one hell of a punch for such a small vessel compared to most capital ships.

EA would definitely have to confront Centauri fleets by swamping them with fighters and hoping they come out victorious through sheer attrition.

The Rutarian fighter would prove to be very useful against Starfury formations as it retains a lot of the Sentri's manoeuvrability but also has a lot more firepower. The Octurion would be a vital addition to the Centauri fleet - virtually the only ship that can stand up to the Omega Destroyer in terms of all round performance (that's not to say that fleet formations can't accomplish this as a group). The Octurian can carry 24 fighters and although the Centauri Balvarian Carrier can carry 36 fighters, they are not a common class of ship.

Also note where the EA seriously lost ship numbers in the Minbari War - through hit and run attacks with no chance to retaliate. This also seems to be a favourite tactic of the Centauri (e.g. Ambushing the Whitestar in 'Movements of Fire and Shadow' and their assault on the Narn homeworld in 'The Long, Twighlight Struggle'"

If the EA had the guts to make outright assaults on Centauri positions I feel that they would make the most progress as the Centauri would have nowhere to run. This is a proven tactic against the Centauri as the Narns showed in 'Mighnight on the Firing Line". However I doubt that the public would support such a move (excluding Clark's reign of terror).

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Posted by MCO Strife on 11-21-2001 07:38 PM:

lol how about we just say it depends on who writes the script , besides Centauri have scarier hairstlyes than us. can u imagine a group of centauri guards walking towards you with those funny hairstyles? lol the humans would die laughing

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Posted by Raider on 11-21-2001 07:53 PM:

Centauri have the tactics!!
The already won spacefights when mankind burned heretics to hell.
I think, this counts more than a better ship/lightyear rate.
And they have the Vorchans. ItÂ´s a really well designes attack ship Fast, small and very havy armed.

Posted by IceFire on 11-21-2001 10:16 PM:

quote:
And they have the Vorchans. ItÂ´s a really well designes attack ship Fast, small and very havy armed.

And I just finished saying how they are vulnerable to fighters.

quote:
I recognize a similar quote from ItB...

The Centauri and Earth are on significantly more even footing in the timeperiod chosen by this topic compaired to Earth and the Minbari.

The Minbari can give Shadows a run for their money on occasion so if they can do that, then Earth obviously had no chance against them. The Minbari had better tactics, were better prepared, and had a massive technological advantage.

So if the Centauri were that powerful, they might be able to deal with the Minbari slightly more evenly, but as evidenced from the show and TV movies, even the Centauri were terrified of the Minbari.

I'm not arguing for who would win....im just saying that the two sides are on fairly even footing.

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Posted by haderak on 11-21-2001 11:52 PM:

woo Ice woo.
your trying to force an EA victory at any cost?

according to JMS and what we have seen in the show both races have:

-EA has a respectable and dissuasive military strength
-EA has a good sphere of influence
-EA has good strategic reach (dissuasive power)
-EA has medium logistic support (needs better planetary assault capability, that comes with the warlock later)
-EA has battle experience
-EA are not morons
-EA is determined even with difficult odds
-EA has a good territory portion
-EA has plenty resourses (can endure punishment for long periods)

-centauri are very experienced in combat
-centauri are superior in tactics and have invasion campaigns experience (usefull in obliterating enemy forces)
-centauri are smart old foxes
-centauri arent cowards (will fight at a geat cost)
-centauri have a larger fleet ( more room for casualties)
-centauri have better tech (that is undeniable and was stated)
-centauri have excelent logistic capability (makes victories a lot easier)
-centauri have huge resourses (waves will keep coming and coming)
-centauri have a larger territory portion (More room for lost battles)
-centauri have an immense sphere of influence (partialy by fear)

you can see each faction qualities, comparable strenghts in some areas, but many of them lagg a little behind for the EA, a little centauri advantage here and there summed up makes one not so slighly little advantage anymore.
Both sides are cunning and smart takin away some periods of EA arrogance.
Each of Both factions can be met with equal or better response from the other side. it realy comes to strategic mooves. having this in mind one can tell he whos better at strategy will win the war.

BOTH SIDES HAVE CREDIBLE SRATEGIC ABILITIES
If both adversaries are equaly competent on waht theyre doing, then those Centauri advantages will undoubtely come into play, giving them the best chance.

Its up to the script to decide who surprises who and takes the tide of the war on its favour, so do not speculate anymore.

Posted by Wildlife on 11-22-2001 12:13 AM:

all well and true "had" but
the centauri would win becase ummmmmmmmmm THEY just will OK!

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Posted by Triggy on 11-22-2001 01:12 AM:

Don't get me wrong, I still think that at that time the Centauri had a slightly larger empire, but not by much as they had lost many colonies to the Narn (including Narn itself) and to other League worlds such as the Drazi thus greatly diminishing its industrial base. Also the Centauri fleet was depleted through its war with the Narns and other worlds (under Shadow influence). The Centauri fleet was rebuilding, whereas the EA fleet was at peak size (before the bulk of the Civil War) because it stayed out of the Shadow War.

This was one of the main reaons for the question as these factors (Centauri decline and Earth rise) over the years have tended to balance out other differences in empire strnegth

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Posted by IceFire on 11-22-2001 05:05 AM:

quote:
Each of Both factions can be met with equal or better response from the other side. it realy comes to strategic mooves. having this in mind one can tell he whos better at strategy will win the war.

BOTH SIDES HAVE CREDIBLE SRATEGIC ABILITIES
If both adversaries are equaly competent on waht theyre doing, then those Centauri advantages will undoubtely come into play, giving them the best chance.

Its up to the script to decide who surprises who and takes the tide of the war on its favour, so do not speculate anymore.

Finally. some ground to work with. Strategic moves is definately what this war would be all about. But everyone took the tech stance and I was proving that the footing wasn't the dichotemy that it was with the Earth Minbari conflict.

quote:
woo Ice woo. your trying to force an EA victory at any cost?

I don't think I ever stated or implied that. I was providing an alternate and example filled statement on how the Earth Alliance isn't as weak as some would like to think.

Basically on my power scale (excluding first ones) I place the Minbari, Centauri, Drakh and then Earth. These last three are fairly close to each other with different advantages and disadvantages.

Posted by Crimson Scythe on 11-22-2001 05:49 AM:

I think that something has been overlooked when comparing this scenario to the EA-Minbari War. One of the main reasons why the EA did so poorly against the Minbari was that the Minbari had stealth technology that prevented the EA from tracking their ships. This made it possible for the Minbari ships to sneak up and blow up a couple EA ships without too much trouble. This forced the EA's hand in a couple of situations (eg. Lexington battle group vs the Black Star).

Now, there is no evidence of the Centauri using that kind of stealth tech, which would allow the EA to engage their cap ships at a distance. This would also make the EA's close range fire much more accurate. During the EA-Minbari War, the EA ships were mostly shooting at sensor shadows, something akin to trying to shoot down a modern fighter using nothing but iron sights, hence the lack of hits.

I think, overall, the EA could win it, albeit with heavy losses, just because humans are good tinkerers. The Centauri have been pretty much technologically stagnant, while the EA has made huge leaps forward in just a few years.

Whew! OK! All done...............for now!!

CS

Posted by Londo Molari on 11-22-2001 06:17 AM:

SO what if the Omega has more fighters than a primus? The Centauri have more primuses than the EA has Omegas!!!

And as for Vorchans being vulnerable to fighters, if a Vorchan fleet speeds in, blows up capital ships in single volley, and runs away, what is the fighter gonna do?

Obviously EA cap ships wont just stand there and will blow some holes in the Vorchan, and may stop it

but overall, EA will only be able to defend its self.

And I heard somewhere that the Centauri Were afraid of the Minbari, but were almost close to their strength

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Posted by Londo Molari on 11-22-2001 06:23 AM:

damnit, does anyone have Johan Alm's "Unholy Alliance" 3D Animation uploaded anywhere?

I think that is a highly accurate depiction of an EA vs Centauri and Centauri vs Minbari Conflict

Posted by Galen on 11-22-2001 06:51 AM:

I see....

......I'm not too sure about this one. But I would have to say the Drazi would come in and rob everyone! Thats what they are going to do! Or the Minbari would come in and wipe them both out. lol! I would have to agree though that untill they are fighting the war, that there is NO way to know.

Galen

Posted by Valorum on 11-22-2001 07:30 AM:

Well If Babylon 5 can Take out a Primus Battlecruser, The Omega is going to have a field day with the Centauri. :-)

Cya

Posted by Triggy on 11-22-2001 09:59 AM:

Strategically the EA has gained a lot over the past few conflicts, whereas the Centauri have often ceded territiories to rivals rather than fight for them in recent times. The Centauri undoubtedly have centuries of experience, especially with capital ship combat and using the Vorchans to full effect. To counter this the EA have arguably the most experience of fighter combats of any race in the galaxy.

I don't think that the EA government would want to commit troops to a war of attrition and therefore losing their best chance to counter the manoeuvrability. speed and tactics of the Centauri fleets. The Centauri however would continue to hit-and-run against Earth forces and would eventually get the upper hand in the war.

Assaulting Earth itself however is another problem. I have just five words:

Mass drivers vs GOD platforms

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