VWBB - GTVI and the SOC

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VWBB (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/index.php)
- Blackwater Ops (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8)
-- GTVI and the SOC (http://volitionwatch.papageorgefamily/vwbb/showthread.php?threadid=4564)

Posted by killadonuts on 11-23-2001 08:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Kellan
I tend to agree that the GTVI functions as an intelligence-gathering group rather than a military force. It then hands on information to be acted upon by the GTVA. For whatever reason, the SOC had to be created, either because GTVA didn't act correctly, and thus SOC have more contact with GTVI, or because some things are better left in the realms of secrecy.

I horrible (morally) example would be the various aspects of the Schutzstaffel (SS). The SD were an internal and external intelligence gathering group, the Waffen-SS were a military group under the command of the SS.

Now, BWO is meant to be a special squadron, and if it were just SOC it'd be just another SOC squadron. It thus seems logical to make the formation of BWO and the commissioning of the Golgotha the first GTVI combat projects since the days of the Hades project. Prior to BWO, it was outlawed due to Hades, but attitudes are now beginning to relax, given the faithful service of the GTVI over the intervening years.

Aldo may be right in suggesting that the GTVI reports directly to the GTVA and contains elements from both species, but SOC may be purely Terran, and there may be a similar Vasudan force. Dunno what it'd be called though.

But Why? Why would the Vasudans need their own version of the SOC if both fleets operate under the same government?

Posted by Turnsky on 11-23-2001 12:30 PM:

I'm gathering that the vasudans would need it because not all alliances share the same intelligence divisions they may certainly share information, but all in all they are two separate enities.

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Posted by aldo_14 on 11-23-2001 05:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Turnsky
I'm gathering that the vasudans would need it because not all alliances share the same intelligence divisions they may certainly share information, but all in all they are two separate enities.

well, just look at the SOC infiltrating the NTF..... they couldn't do that with the HOL

I'm begginning to lean towards the idea of a Vasudan SOC being partly an Imperial guard for protecting their Emperor..... totally loyal, to help protect against an HOL style rebellion within the normal military (ok, so they were parlimentary till after the end of the Great War, but still.....)

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Posted by IceFire on 11-23-2001 07:29 PM:

They were also a hopelessly corrupt, non-representative parliamentary system, maybe something like what Britain had for a while during the 18th Century.

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Posted by Cepheid on 11-23-2001 08:40 PM:

The British constitutional monarchy actually operated more smoothly than most monarchies because of the Parlaiment.

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Posted by IceFire on 11-23-2001 08:51 PM:

Except that the electoral districts remained the same for far too long and represented only a small fraction of the people they should have.

This all changed later on however.

Posted by Ace on 11-24-2001 04:29 AM:

They were also a hopelessly corrupt, non-representative parliamentary system, maybe something like what Britain had for a while during the 18th Century.

Which is exactly how they're intended to be portrayed in FS:FPS, mainly using Napoleonic tactics against weaker but more adaptable Terran forces.

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Posted by IceFire on 11-28-2001 02:52 AM:

I suppose thats right.

When FS came out (I was in Grade 10) I had no idea how corrupt a parliamentary system could be.

Now I do

Posted by Shrike on 11-28-2001 04:54 AM:

Anything can be corrupted if you work at it hard enough.

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Posted by AdmiralAbaht on 11-29-2001 04:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by IceFire
I had no idea how corrupt a parliamentary system could be.

Now I do

If you want a corrupt parlimentary system just watch Stockwell Day at a caucus meeting

Posted by IceFire on 11-29-2001 05:04 AM:

Well you know I didn't vote for that ultra right wing wacko.

Seriously, the guy creeps me out big time. At least Preston Manning recognized he had a party of radicals.

Posted by ns33 on 12-05-2001 01:29 AM:

Compare and Contrast

GTVI is the equivilent of the CIA or the old KGB, speaking from the internationally known intelligence branches of two superpowers.

Think of SOC as the U.S. Marines or something like that. They only carry out the mission under secret cover.

So it goes like this:
1) GTVI gathers intel
2) Sends SOC to do it

So you can kinda say that the GTVI and SOC are somewhat loosely linked.

One major difference is that when you die in the GTVI, you are acknowledge to have existed and died. When you die as SOC, it will be as if you never existed. They will deny that you have ever existed.

Get the point?

Posted by Shrike on 12-05-2001 08:08 AM:

Re: Compare and Contrast

quote:
Originally posted by ns33
Think of SOC as the U.S. Marines or something like that. They only carry out the mission under secret cover.

No no, the marines are overt. You're thinking SEALs. SEALs are the commando guys.

Posted by killadonuts on 12-08-2001 04:43 AM:

If you want to see parlimentary corruption just watch C-SPAN's continuing coverage of the Senate and House sessions

Posted by IceFire on 12-08-2001 05:45 AM:

I can only take so much

Posted by killadonuts on 12-08-2001 07:34 AM:

Each branch of the military has its own Special Operations unit.
I imagine the SOC is the GTVA equilvinent of such a unit.
There that just about kills that topic.

Posted by Shrike on 12-08-2001 09:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by killadonuts
Each branch of the military has its own Special Operations unit.
I imagine the SOC is the GTVA equilvinent of such a unit.
There that just about kills that topic.

You just contradicted yourself. The GTVA is the governing body, thus making the SOC the equivalent of the CIA, which it obviously is not. The SOC is Special Operations Command, sounds very much like they stuck all the SEALs, Green Berets, SAS, etc etc under one unified command structure and gave some of them airplanes.

Posted by Alikchi on 12-08-2001 03:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Shrike
and gave some of them airplanes.

sorry but this made me laugh, I don't know why

Posted by killadonuts on 12-09-2001 02:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Shrike
You just contradicted yourself. The GTVA is the governing body, thus making the SOC the equivalent of the CIA, which it obviously is not. The SOC is Special Operations Command, sounds very much like they stuck all the SEALs, Green Berets, SAS, etc etc under one unified command structure and gave some of them airplanes.

Umm... What? This sounds just like what I said. The Green Berets and the SEALS are Special Operation Units. So, the (are you paying attention?) SPECIAL OPERATIONS Command must be the GTVA equvilent of these real-life units.

The GTVI therefore is the equvilent of the CIA or the old KGB agencies.

Posted by Shrike on 12-09-2001 06:09 AM:

Whoops, I misread what you typed. I thought you were implying that the SOC was directly under the control of the GTVA government, instead of being under the control of the military.

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